Looking for Computer Engineering Co-op

[Scott]

Okay, so a PD forum probably shouldn't be my first place to go looking for a job, but I'm having a very difficult time on my school's career website.

Background: I'm a junior studying Computer Engineering at Washington University in St. Louis, and looking for a co-op (or possibly just an internship) in my field. Definition of "my field" - A job in which programming is NOT the main focus. One of my biggest problems is that nearly all of the tech jobs shown on my school's career site are application development, software engineering, etc. I can do programming, but I don't enjoy it - that's why I'm CoE and not CS.

More specifically, my interests lie in hardware design, network engineering and security, system administration, and robotics. It would be preferable if I could remain in St. Louis, but I wouldn't mind relocating.

All advice and contacts are appreciated. I'd be more than happy to send a resume upon request. Thanks!

[Richard_Todd]

Originally Posted by Scott

Okay, so a PD forum probably shouldn't be my first place to go looking for a job, but I'm having a very difficult time on my school's career website.

My first thought was to ask a moderator if this was appropriate for the forums, but now I see that you are a mod. Do we really want these forums to turn into job boards and classified ads?

Either way, best of luck on your search.

[Doku]

Check into companies that supply the government. A great example in your area is Boeing. Boeing has a large defense systems facility in St. Louis. Boeing: Integrated Defense Systems Home

In the engineering and comp-sci fields, you'll find that most workers have a disdain for professors/universities/... because of how impractical a lot of what they teach is, and will be more than happy to try to help someone get a leg up before the teachers screw them up too badly. They are also frustrated that people coming out of college have "no freaking clue about the real world." Appeal to that.

At these places, don't call the front desk. They seem to have a reflex to hang up on you. The interesting thing about internships, etc. are that the college students can't find them, and the companies can't seem to fill them. Best strategy that I have heard so far is to go to the facilities around 10am, and look for the people standing around having a smoke break. Tell them that you are a comp-eng geek in college, and looking for some real world experience to help you make sense of what the professors are feeding you. Tell them that you would like to learn from the people in the field how it's actually done vs. what the ivory tower people are telling you.

That's my advice... Do with it what you will.

--Curt

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Richard_Todd

My first thought was to ask a moderator if this was appropriate for the forums, but now I see that you are a mod. Do we really want these forums to turn into job boards and classified ads?

Either way, best of luck on your search.

You're right, we certainly don't want this to turn into a job search site, but on the other hand, part of the purpose of these forums is to assist people in their growth. Thus far, there has been no precedent set for this sort of thing. We'll see what the mods of this forum have to say - if they shoot me down, so be it.

Doku, thanks much for your advice. I had a friend who went to Boeing this semester, so I'll look into it.

[Cat Dancer]

Originally Posted by Scott

Okay, so a PD forum probably shouldn't be my first place to go looking for a job

A PD forum is not a bad place if you're asking "how do I get this job I want".

Background: I'm a junior studying Computer Engineering at Washington University in St. Louis, and looking for a co-op (or possibly just an internship) in my field. Definition of "my field" - A job in which programming is NOT the main focus. One of my biggest problems is that nearly all of the tech jobs shown on my school's career site are application development, software engineering, etc. I can do programming, but I don't enjoy it - that's why I'm CoE and not CS.

More specifically, my interests lie in hardware design, network engineering and security, system administration, and robotics.

What can you do?

I.e., Is there any hardware you can design now? Can you put together a secure network? Of what sort? What kind of system administration can you do? What kind of robotics can you do?

[Doku]

Originally Posted by Scott

Doku, thanks much for your advice. I had a friend who went to Boeing this semester, so I'll look into it.

You might consider asking your friend to help you look into it. (unless your friend is an idiot.) The best recomendation you can have is from someone on the inside that others on the inside respect. When I am on the hunt for employees or interns or co-workers, I ask the employees/co-workers that I know that are doing a very good job, and ask them if they have any friends that they would be willing to vouch for their skills that might be interested in a job. Conversely, if there is someone that works for me who is an idiot, and they recommend someone, I will take a look at them, but pre-judge that they are going to be very similar to the idiot that recommended them... but I'll give them a look anyway. Not saying that that is a good thing, but it's a quirk of mine; and from seeing how others work, I'd be willing to bet that it's a quirk that many have.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Cat Dancer

What can you do?

I.e., Is there any hardware you can design now? Can you put together a secure network? Of what sort? What kind of system administration can you do? What kind of robotics can you do?

I helped design the board and emulators that we use to program them for the robotics class. I took a CCNA class my senior year of high school and worked as a university network backbone technician for a full year. Two summers ago, I installed and configured four web servers (two Linux, two Windows) for my school's new web hosting service, and I currently run a web server of my own (though it hasn't officially launched yet).

It's not that I have no skills... I just need help finding someone who will pay me for them. :-)

[Cat Dancer]

Originally Posted by Scott

I'm [...] looking for a co-op (or possibly just an internship) in my field.

When you say co-op or internship, do you mean you're looking for a job for this summer, or for a job when you graduate?

What is a "co-op"? (I'm not familiar when the term).

[andrew]

Have tried looking for something through Cisco's Accademy Connection? It's something like that, but I know if you get your CCNA you can get into some stuff. Try local hosting companies, schools, or ISPs. Maybe even a small business that needs a LAN setup.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Cat Dancer

What is a "co-op"? (I'm not familiar when the term).

Co-op is (at my school atleast) a job for one term (4 months) that you get through your school. It usually counts for credit or something along those lines.

[Cat Dancer]

Originally Posted by Scott

It's not that I have no skills... I just need help finding someone who will pay me for them. :-)

I understand. The reason why I'm asking these questions is because I can help you with what to do to find someone to pay you for your skills, if I have sufficient information on your goals and abilities.

Stu says that at his school, a co-op is a job one gets during the term. So are you looking for a job that you can do while you are in school, during the semester?

[Scott]

Sorry, I guess I should have specified that: A co-op at my university is defined as working full-time (or almost full-time) for a semester and a summer, either spring/summer or summer/fall. You don't earn credit and sometimes it delays graduation, but you earn a salary and are still counted as a full-time student for purposes like scholarships.

I'm looking for a spring/summer co-op, but I wouldn't be averse to getting a head start on a summer/fall one, either.

[Cat Dancer]

Originally Posted by Scott

A co-op at my university is defined as working full-time (or almost full-time) for a semester and a summer, either spring/summer or summer/fall. You don't earn credit and sometimes it delays graduation, but you earn a salary and are still counted as a full-time student for purposes like scholarships.

Can you do any kind of work for a co-op? I mean, let's say you went out and found a job you wanted to do for the spring and summer. Do you just tell the university "I'm doing my co-op now?"

Ok, let's review. The goal's I'm hearing are

* a full-time job for the spring and summer

* to be still counted as a full-time student for purposes like scholarships

* to work in hardware design, network engineering and security, system administration, or robotics

* to be in the St. Louis area

Is this right so far?

Let's take a look at your process. You moved from a passive job search of looking at your school career site to an active job search by posting in a forum (i.e., here). This is good. You described some of the things you were looking for. This is good. You're on the right track. You're headed in the right direction!

Now, I was once a manager in charge of the computer department at a non-profit. I hired people, both employees and contractors. I could have hired you, if the computer work we were doing had interested you.

As a manager, I've got a great big pile of work to get done. I could do it myself, except that there's too much to do myself. My company has money, so I can hire people, except that if someone shows up who doesn't know how to do this particular kind of work, now I'm even further behind.

I can read job listings of people looking for work, except that if it's unclear to me if they can help or not, now I have to take time to ask them about what they can do, I have to bring them in for an interview, my human resources department gives me lots of rules to follow, and if after going through this process it turns out that the person can't help me, then I've spent time not getting anything done and my big pile of work has gotten even bigger.

You have skills... and want money... I have money... and I'd be really delighted if I can somehow transform some of that money into getting some of my big pile of work done!

So when I read a posting by someone who wants a job, what am I looking for?

* what skills do you have

* what kind of work do you want to do

* where do you want to work

* how long do you want to work for

* what are your terms

* what are your special requirements (i.e., if there are requirements for a job to count as a "co-op" job, what are those requirements?)

An excellent post is one that gives me all the information to tell me if you can help me with my big pile of work. Then I'm encouraged to risk taking the time to interview and go through the hiring process in the hope that you'll actually be able to help me.

To critique your original post from the perspective of what someone hiring you would need to know (hey, you asked for help, right! ),

* you spent a lot of time talking about what you don't want (programming)

* I don't know what a "co-op" is, so I don't know if my company qualifies as a co-op place

* I don't know when you want to work, for how long, or for full time or part time

* If I'm outside of St. Louis, saying that "it would be preferable if I could remain in St. Louis, but I wouldn't mind relocating" is useless to me, because I have no idea whether you want to work in my location or not

* you list your interests, but I don't know what skills you have -- I don't know what you can get done

* you don't need to say "I'd be more than happy to send a resume upon request", it's assumed you'll send me a resume if I want one... but you kind of give the impression that maybe you think the next step is to get a resume from you, when perhaps my next step would be to call you, or to get a demonstration that you can do the things you can say you do

So how do you find a job? You want to do what you did here -- post in forums about what you're looking for -- just more, and better

Write down answers to the questions I listed above under "when I read a posting by someone who wants a job, what am I looking for". Then post your information in forums related to the job you want. For example, if you want a job in network security, post in network security forums; if you want a job in robotics, post in robotics forums.

Be polite, say "I'm currently a junior at Washington University in St. Louis, looking for a full-time job that matches these criteria. If you know of any one who could use my skills, please forward my post to them". Don't apologize, but read the rules of the forum so that you know that your post is within bounds.

You've heard of the "six degrees of separation", right? Anyone on Earth can be connected to any other person on the planet through a chain of acquaintances with no more than five intermediaries. I may read your post in a forum, mention it to my manager, my manager may remember that just the other day another manager was mentioning to her that he had a project, but it would only be for the spring and summer, and he couldn't find anyone who wanted to work for that short a period of time.

The trick here is to write down your requirements in such a way that if you were offered a job that meets those criteria, you would be excited to accept the job immediately -- you wouldn't be waiting around to see if you can get a better job.

For example, you're willing to relocate. What job, even if it were outside of the St. Louis area, would you be excited to take because it offered you A, B, C, and D? What A, B, C, and D would be so compelling that you wouldn't say, "well, I want to look around for another month and see if I can find something in St. Louis".

What job, if it were in St. Louis, what job would you be excited to take? Maybe you'd be excited to take a job in St. Louis that had A, B, and C. Maybe, because it's in St. Louis, you'd be excited to take the job in St. Louis even if it didn't have D.

Now you can be specific in your post. You can say "I'd be excited to relocate and take a job anywhere that had A, B, C, and D; I'm also available to work in St. Louis and take job would only have A, B, and C." Specific is good. Specific shows that you've thought it through. Specific shows that you've put the work into being clear about what you're looking for, which suggests that you're going be willing to work when you get the job

You may be thinking, "but I don't know if there's a job out there that has what I'd really want". Ok, look. There's no lack of work that needs doing in the world. There's no lack of problems. And, you're in a 13 trillion dollar economy. There may be a lack of jobs, at least ones posted on your school career site. To post a job, someone's got to envision that someone out there is going to be interested, will see the posting, will be able to help, and that it will be worth it to wade through hundreds of irrelevant resumes. Jobs that get posted are only a very slim slice of the work that is out there.

I hope this was helpful. Let me know if you have any questions. If you agree that drafting a post such as I suggest is a good next step, and you'd like feedback, feel free to post it here!

Cat

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by Scott

Okay, so a PD forum probably shouldn't be my first place to go looking for a job, but I'm having a very difficult time on my school's career website.

Background: I'm a junior studying Computer Engineering at Washington University in St. Louis, and looking for a co-op (or possibly just an internship) in my field. Definition of "my field" - A job in which programming is NOT the main focus. One of my biggest problems is that nearly all of the tech jobs shown on my school's career site are application development, software engineering, etc. I can do programming, but I don't enjoy it - that's why I'm CoE and not CS.

More specifically, my interests lie in hardware design, network engineering and security, system administration, and robotics. It would be preferable if I could remain in St. Louis, but I wouldn't mind relocating.

All advice and contacts are appreciated. I'd be more than happy to send a resume upon request. Thanks!

Hi Scott,

Since I'm not American I can't really help since I don't know of any American co-op job search sites (here in Canada we have one that does exactly that, and I'm quite sure you have one too there.)
However, you can try your luck at Craigslist. Here's the Missouri portal:
craigslist: st louis, MO classifieds for jobs, apartments, personals, for sale, services, community, and events
Under "jobs", you can see some job categories. You may want to go to the one called "arch / engineering" since that appears to be most appropriate with your major. Most of the jobs listed at CL are for permanent employment, but occassionally employers look for co-op/intern students and post there. If you wanna go the extra distance and be "aggressive", apply anyway to companies whose listing appears to match what you are looking for, while clearly stating that you are just looking forward to doing some co-op terms. You just never know, as sometimes employers don't always advertise all the opportunities they have!

Good luck!

[Doku]

zpivat: He posted this request seven months ago. I would assume that he has found something by now.

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by Doku

zpivat: He posted this request seven months ago. I would assume that he has found something by now.

!!!!!!!!!!!
*super ultra embarrassed*

[LisaRobinson]

Originally Posted by Richard_Todd

My first thought was to ask a moderator if this was appropriate for the forums, but now I see that you are a mod. Do we really want these forums to turn into job boards and classified ads?

Either way, best of luck on your search.

Hi there,

I may have a few post that may be of interest to you. Please send me your resume lisa.robinson@envision.com

THANKS

Lisa