Originally Posted by Orionjoel
So in my opinion if you want to take ethics to the nth degree, the only people living an ethical life are the ones that are not part of modern civilization. This may be an out there claim, but honestly I do not believe anyone living in modern society can even possibly even get close to a entire 100% ethical exsistence.
So while I believe that you do need to do your part, I believe it is much better to work on ethics from a matter of how you present yourself, and your work in everything you do. By this I mean
Is your point "Everyone else is unethical, so it must be OK" or "It'll be too hard to become ethical, so let's not bother"?
Now I would actually go as far as to say that living abundance is actually the more ethical thing to do. Something I read a long time back said that for every new millionaire created there are around 10 new jobs formed in someway. I do not know the math, on how exactly that works, but it makes sense. A millionaire spending more freely because they are financially secure, will spend more money then someone earning $40,000 per year who is frugel.
See, now you're contradicting yourself. At first your point was "Ethics don't belong in this discussion," now you're saying "Abundance is ethical."
Also, you heard something, a long time ago, and you don't know how it works or the math. But that's something supporting your idea that abundance is ethical.
This is the point I was making previously. Let's actually FIND OUT. Let's ask these questions - what are the consequences of our abundance? Do we consider them relevant enough to change our ideas and behaviours on abundance? Do we not care? Do we disagree that there's a problem?
One of these is true. Either your abundance is causing harm, so you stop pursuing it; Your abundance is causing harm, but you don't stop pursuing it, or your abundance is not causing harm.
Is this really a block to growth? I see this as a big opportunity for growth! You can learn about your real values - if you can be conscious and perceptive enough to notice your real thoughts on the matter, and be OK with that. As I said previously, maybe we will simply hide from that.
It's all good. Just throwing it out there. If anyone resonates with what I'm saying, maybe it would be worth looking into these things a little deeper. If not, there are other ways of looking at this, such as:
We must search for Abundance, not because of what the ethical side of the conversation says, but because it is what you want. If you don't want abundance don't search for it. It is one of those things that is the devide, you will either want it or you wont, you cannot be in the middle.