Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam9  For me they are not the same point:
Point 1 - the past can exist in the present through reminders of events (painful or pleasureful) and often through physical evidence - a scar, a lost arm. It is not a fantasy or figment of the imagination.
Point 2 - Your reaction to the past events (always your choice), painful or pleasureful.
An event and your reaction to the event are not the same. They are 2 distinct happenings.
My only point ever was that the past is not a fantasy or non-event. It has bearing and influence on the present whether it's good, bad or indifferent. How a person chooses to referrence it is not the issue. That's a separate point. |
I understand what you're saying, Tam9, and I disagree. You are saying (Point 1) the past can exist in the present through reminders or physical evidence. I am saying the those reminders and "physical evidence" are not the past at all. They are indeed (Point 2) your reactions to (or a result of) an event. The event does not exist, only your memory and thoughts about the event. There are outcomes of an event, but they do not equal the past. You seem to be saying that the memories and the reactions and the issues around an event actually ARE the past, and that the past therefore exists now. But no.
Although I now have a scar on my knee from where Scotty chased me when I was five and I fell on the brick wall, Scotty is not chasing me and I am not falling now. That event does not exist, except as a thought in my head (which I have called a fantasy, but that word bugs you, so I'll just call it a thought. Nevertheless, it
does not exist, except as a thought.) If I wanted to, I could choose to try to relive that accident every day by visualizing it, feeling a phantom pain of hitting the brick, and refreshing my anger at Scotty for chasing me. But that would still not be the past being present. It would be a woman, not a 5 year old girl, filtering her memories through the years and experiences, and making a choice to hold onto old pain. In other words, it would be me in the Now. Not the past.
I'm not averse to using what I've learned from that incident and filed in my unconscious (since I don't need to keep the incident or its resulting pain, only what I've learned, in my "filing cabinet"). So that might affect my future (which does not currently exist, except as a thought); maybe someday I'll be jumping over a low brick wall and I'll take special care to stay upright.
But I think Point 2 contradicts Point 1. As you said, the event and your reaction (or remembrance) of it are two different things, but you are saying that the past lives in the present. And I say, that is an illusion (cuz I know you hate the "f" word
).