[Erki]

Originally Posted by moonlite

Now I don't understand. How controlling any need can be the waste of time, and how could it be waste of willpower???

You answered it yourself:

Originally Posted by moonlite

I don't think of sex as a bad thing which has to be painfully restricted or better eradicated. I deem it powerful tool, a beautiful gift from G-d. A kind of power supply, wellspring of energy and joy to be used wisely. This is the way in which His light travels through worlds. And I could not imagine greater pleasure than being His light transmitter.

Originally Posted by moonlite

I'm not sure if you can truly free yourself from social conditioning. I don't consider it something wrong, it depends what kind of society it is. What I can see now is that although Western culture is free from many ancient taboos it does not mean that people are more free in connecting with each other, they tend rather to withdraw. Masturbation as I wrote is a kind of withdrawal, an instance of disability in coping with real world, strengthening the separation.

I think the reason why masturbating seems to disconnect people from each other is the stigma attached to it. If people didn't resist masturbating and their sexuality in overall, it wouldn't be such a big deal and people would be more open about it. More openness = more closeness. Or what do you think?

I have to add here though that crass oversexualization that mass media seems to do, doesn't mean openness though.

Originally Posted by moonlite

For me sex is about relationship. The two are inseparable. Of course I know that people are eager to deny it because sex is fun and relationship are difficult. But it does not change the situation. When someone masturbates a lot he/she can't see it so clearly. Then he/she tends to separate the two, denigrating sex to mere release... Tell me please how can it help?

1) Why do you presume that relationships are difficult? Do they have to be difficult? Are they more valuable if they are difficult?
2) For me too, sex is about relationship. Masturbation can be about relationship as well - with yourself then. In that case, I feel that masturbation for release doesn't really count(and it very rarely feels good either).
And if you say that sex is fun, relationship is difficult, and sex is about relationship, do you mean that sex is about difficulty?

Originally Posted by moonlite

Now, I'm lost - can you be more specific? I'm not sure what you name 'natural' in this case.
Anyway, in my worldview sex means much more than making babies, afterall I'm not an animal.

Wasn't it dolphins who also make love just for the enjoyment of it? No wonder they are deemed to be so intelligent animals then.

Why do you repulse animality(is that a word?) so much? Where did cure furry animals go? Or should I use the word "naturalness" instead? Why do people resist being natural? You mentioned higher pleasures earlier - why are natural pleasures so bad then? What if instead leaving out natural pleasures and going for higher pleasures, embrace our animalness and naturalness and take these with us and make these also "high"? Animals and nature doesn't always have to be crude, dirty and brutish. Why not go back to the trees - trees are higher than us after all.