[moonlite]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Moonlite, I actually agree with some of your ideas. The theory of splitting is interesting.
However it seems to me that using these arguments to condemn masturbation is an overkill and leads to a comic effect.

I think that you don't miss the pieces of irony in my posts

Originally Posted by Ilya

Bringing higher matters to sex, should happen after basic sexual problems are sorted out. And the most basic problem of sex for most men is its insufficiency.
You do not talk about high cuisine to a starving person. And after a couple of days, a relatively young man who hadn't have release is starving for it.

So if someone does not have a girlfriend, they should masturbate and then, when satisfied, they would be able to think about splitting themselves, about whether sex is about animalistic instincts or the connection with other soul.

I never wrote that you have to resign from sex - I think that for anyone who wants to have sex (especially if his 'starving') better is to find a girlfriend.
You know - the sex drive is only instinct which decreases when not satisfied, that's also the great difference from other human needs like food or water. Of course not after two days or two weeks of abstinence, maybe 3 months can bring substantial results. It does not mean that if for you guys is so difficult - it's utterly impossible.

Originally Posted by Ilya

Without partner, these thoughts would be theoretic, but so are your attempts at male view of the situation.

So go ahead and find some nice girl

Originally Posted by Ilya

The truth is - you start with making peace with your inner animal. The human in us is just a few thousands years old, and in sexual area we are still very close to animals. Being ashame of it is social conditioning and leads to disjointed and problems in sex area. Accepting the primal nature of sex frees the mind from upholding social dogmas. It allows to "be in the zone" during sex, to experience total immersion. Even the connection you are talking about becomes ultimate, when the chatter inside my head shuts up and suddenly, two souls merge into one, two breaths become the one, two minds and two hearts become the one and bodies seem to disappear altogether.

Then, when this becomes the usual, it is possible to become conscious of what's happening. Conscious in a very special, non-verbal way. Then it is possible to elevate the natural act to the level of art and transcendence.

To start with as I might say top down approach, seems unreasonable, at least from the male point of view.

I disagree with you. First - you, as a human have no faintest idea what does it mean to be an animal. You can only mimic them (or rather what you have seen on Discovery channel) and you do if you resign from exercising your free will. But still you are not animal but a man who behaves like his imagery of animal behaviour. It's a kind of cliche to think of a man as a very close to animals in sexual matters, it's only kind of theoretical frame which a not-good-at-all makeshift for even more disturbed Christian view. Let me give you one example. Think about rape. 'Animalistic behaviour' would be taking lonely woman when she's not guarded by other men and rape her. But it's relatively rare - the most of rape cases occurs among people who at least know each other. Not necessarily very well, but at least a bit of seduction had taken place. Sometimes they are already married. Why? IMHO because in sex of humans always involved is a symbolic layer. A rape never is a plain realization of an animal urge - unless you are retarded and have no idea of the rules of society - it involves a domination-submission game and so on.
You cannot turn back the time and be back on the trees. And I even don't want to.