[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by moviestar

All eastern philosophies talk about a thoughtless state. They tell you that you are somehow separated from your thoughts and you can shut them down. Through practices of meditation and awareness you can gain a higher level of being, enlightenment being the highest form of mental functioning.

I would like to question that and invite you to a discussion.

There are many problems with the language, if indeed, that is how it is stated. Let's question all of this.

If "you" are separated from thought, what is the "you" that is separated? This is one of the greatest sources of misery in the history of all the world. The self, the center, the you, the me, somehow thinks it is separate from the activity of thought. But that identity is created by thought.

For whatever reason, the mind will put together our experiences in such a way that seems to give security. It sets up that particular set of thoughts as a center of sorts. The activity of the self, is then projected from that center. The center taks on such an importance, that the mind begins to believe that the center is somehow different from the whole. But that is not at all true. The self is composed of the very same thought that it is trying to escape from. It is a violent mind, and that mind wants to escape from itself.

Hopeless.

That would be like trying to physically escape from yourself.

And as far as having a "higher level of being," is that possible? How can there be any other level other than where you are? Thinking that there is another level to attain introduces time into the mind; I will be better, I will resonate higher, etc. But once time is introduced, psychological time, then thought is in control. You cannot bring time into it without thought.

People say there are different levels of consciousness. I wonder if anyone questions that? The conscious mind is made up of its content. Obviously. And what is the content of the conscious mind? Our thoughts, our experiences, our memories. So how can the content of the conscious mind be at any level at all? It is always what it is. The center believes that this line of thought is higher that that line of thought; this grouping of words and activities is more noble than those. The center strives to find a system that it believes will take it to the next level, not knowing that it is the same as what it is seeking.

What is this thoughtless state everybody is talking about? I've come to a realization of how absurd this concept is.
Is there anything like no-thought?

No thought is not quite right. If there were no thought, I would not be able to type these words. I wouldn't be able to play guitar, or speak any language. That is the area where thought is useful; when it is used as thought. The problem comes when thought, for whatever reason, spills over into other areas. I was mugged by a person that looks different from me, so now, all people that look like that are violent; it is dark over there, and I project some horrible fantasy of what might happen, and now I am afraid; the people on the other side of the hill don't share in my religion and, therefore, cannot be trusted; and so on and so on. Of course, there is absolutely no way to know if any of the above thoughts are true, but we engage in these horrid fantasies anyway.

When you experience the illusion of thoughtless state there is something there. You are actually remembering something, you are thinking.

If you experience anything, by definition, thought is involved. Many people use that word, but they don't really mean it. To say that you have experienced a silent mind is not accurate, but we go on with it. (It would be more accurate to say that we experienced what we thought was a silent mind, but if you experience it, it is nothing new.) Sometimes we are limited by the language.

If there is a silent mind, there is no experience. If one is in the moment, thought does not interfere and it stays where it is useful. Everything else is an illusion.