[Ilya]

Originally Posted by Shamou

If by “knowledge and skill” you mean teaching the philosophical mindset that says, “If you know how… and if you are determined enough… you can achieve anything that you want…” I understand, if not… I am complete lost in your rhetoric…

Yes, I mean that, with putting more emphasis on "know how" rather then on "determined enough". Being "determined enough" is hard to quantify and is usually assessed in retrospect.

The operative word here would be, “perceived” effort… because I know of no one who has achieved great things without great efforts… and persistence… However, maybe you could give me some examples…

Let me put it this way. You are right that things have to be done. And to achieve a useful result, they have to be done in a real world. At the very least they have to be manifested.
However I think that there is a major difference between skilled and unskilled efforts.
It comes down to the proverbial "sharpening the axe". With enough effort the tree would be cut. And if we motivate a person he will work harder with the same blunt axe. In fact with good enough motivation his mind will be so clouded with adrenalin, that he won't notice any alternatives.
I think the better solution will be to teach the cutter to sharpen an axe or even to go and buy a chainsaw. And then motivate him. The overall efficiency will be much higher. Mathematically speaking:

Motivation X Skill = Result not Motivation + Skill = Result

If one multiple is small another will have to be HUGE to provide the same result.

So why would anyone do it otherwise? Why provide motivation without instruction or vice versa?

Now I'll give you the real life example from my experience. When I was a kid I wanted to draw. But I lacked talent. Knowing that I practiced drawing on my own. I was motivated. I was persistent. I drew thousands of sketches that could only impress my relatives. After about 5 years of efforts I gave up. I even formed a belief that I can't draw. In three more years I came across a book by Betty Edwards "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". It claims that you can learn to draw in a few hours and a few exercises. With some NLP magic I sped things up a bit and drew my first recognizable portrait in less then an hour.
Now, don't know about others, but I consider my early efforts a complete waste of time. Would additional motivation have helped me. I doubt it.
Taking classes? Very likely. It wouldn't be as fast as Edwards technique, but I could improve greatly over the same 5 years.

My efforts before the book and after are completely different. Before they were taking me nowhere. Now they improve my skill with every drawing. And now, the time spent drawing does not feel "hard". Hard in a sense of exhausting activity that would burn me out in the long run.

With above explanation, I hope you would agree, that a fair share of extraordinary people put in skilled effort, not the useless unskilled "hard work".
I'll name a few - Einstein, Tesla, Mendeleev, Tolstoy, Mozart... most of the people who can be called geniuses were able to transcend persistence with the power of insight. Which reminds me of a debate between Tesla and Edison.

Edison is known for his "1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" definition of genius. However, his arch rival Tesla attributed his inventions to an abnormally vivid imagination and multiple insights. Both are regarded as geniuses of their time and it is difficult to tell who was more successful.

Some time ago I came across a book on creativity. It outlined the stages of the act of invention.

- Collecting information
- "Simmer" stage, when ideas are "cooked" in subconscious mind.
- Insight
- Writing down

The first and the last stages are labor-intensive. But the most value is produced during the second and third stages, which are perceived as easy both to external observer and to the thinker. You can't apply conscious effort to speed these stages up. In fact, relaxing and letting the subconscious to do the work in the background is known to produce better results.

Then, when the insight has already happened, there is a task of putting the result on paper. It takes time, but it is not particularly hard.

So, in the sense explained above I think that persistence and motivation alone are not enough for truly exceptional results. The inefficiency of such approach will cause people who rely on it to fall behind those who use the power of insight and support it with persistence and motivation.

I must admit that I find it extremely hard to have any compassion for anyone who is not willing to do the things necessary to succeed in life…

If someone comes to me with a button missing on his shirt… I will gladly help that person to sew the button on… but if someone comes to me with a button and want me to attach a shirt to it… that person will get the frigid shoulder very fast… I have no empathy or sympathy for slackers…

How do you tell slackers from thinkers during the stages 2 and 3 of the creative process, described above?

The way that I use it, passion is a state of mind where the adrenalin is flowing high… the confidence is soaring… and the predominant feeling is that one has the tiger by the tail… and can do anything he wants with it…

It can be applied to love… but love being only one of the multitude of emotion it can be applied too…

I agree with that, I was just noting the parallels with a discussion in another thread about passion.

I believe that the fundamental way in which we differ is that you take mostly an intellectual approach to motivation… whereas I, being a Robbins’ advocate and follower, prioritize an emotional approach… Still, I greatly enjoy our exchanges of views and opinions… and thank you for it...

Yes, we do disagree, but the conversation is stimulating.