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Originally Posted by Jake Danger  I hope you're not saying what I think you're saying. What you seem to be saying is that there is no distinction between social consensus reality and actual reality ("reality is group-subjective") - that is, reality is whatever we agree that it is. Ideas have consequences, and the consequence of that idea is that anyone who disagrees with the group's understanding of reality is out of touch with reality and thus insane. It follows that since the people in this forum all seem to have minority opinions (compared to mainstream society), then we're all insane. And ironically, anyone who believes that reality is subjective is insane because the social consensus of the majority asserts that reality is objective... 
"Reality is subjective" Is that statement true? If so, is it subjectively true, or objectively true? Can I say, for example, "reality is subjective for you, but objective for me"? If I said that, I'd be agreeing that reality is subjective for everyone...but if it's the same for everyone, how can it be subjective? On the other hand, if I denied that statement, I'd be asserting that reality is objective. All roads seem to lead to Rome... |
Well, I think we got caught up in semantics, and I wasn't clear enough, and I'll take the blame for that.
I believe Reality, with a big "R" is absolute. I don't think the majority of us experience Reality. In fact, it's probably only the Big Names (Jesus, Buddha, etc.) who do. If you go back to my posts on this thread from 11-09-2006 07:43 PM and 11-09-2006 09:55 PM, (and my post on the
"Are Doorknobs Conscious?" thread that will give you more of a context of where I'm coming from) , I choose to call what most of us call Reality as "Experience," because the word "illusion" has misleading connotations. I suspect there is a consensus at some level -- probably nowhere near conscious -- of what this is. Dreams can be and frequently are lessons/messages, and I think "experience" is as well. What I was
suggesting is that perhaps "experience" is a group manifestation of the same phenomenon as dreams.
I don't believe Reality (with a big "R") is subjective at all. But dreams are, and "experience" would be, but the "subjectivity" of "Experience" is somehow more complex because it involves the interaction of everyone. I could speculate further that there's an overall spiritual "life plan" for the world or this "plane of existence," but I have nothing to base that on.