[Lychee]

I can physically sense the laws of the universe. Nothing humans sense is anything more than perception of the "effects" of things--but that doesn't make our knowledge worthless or unrelated to truth.

Causes and effects are just human labels for one thing that seems to consistently precede another. I don't think there's a fundamental difference between them that exists "out there."

You cannot see the very governing property of the universe. You are seeing the effect. I don't see any pillars holding up the sky, yet there are invisible "pillars" which is holding up the atmosphere. What is this invisible force which can be measured, but not seen?

No, no human could have made this universe. But the alternative is not "God made it," but "the laws of the universe caused things to be this way."

But why? What evidence is there that these laws are maintaining itself?

I don't have any reason to believe there is a creator of the world.

There's no reason to believe in anything else, either.

They serve the purpose of telling us what values we should look for and what values we should avoid. But those things are completely individual choices. People create the purpose of their own existence--and they need some idea of "good" and "bad" to guide their actions; but these ideas are different for every individual.

There isn't any purpose but the purpose you make for yourself.

Yes, but why should we look for certain values and why should we avoid other values?

Life is "just the way it is," but it also isn't. Although it is an unchangeable fact, it has explanations and things to discover. I don't think life is a closed book--it's an open one and we should read, read, read! But that doesn't mean that in the end there's any higher guide than ourselves to what should be done with ourselves. Questions of "is" are discovered, but questions of "ought" have to decided.

Life must always be read, of course. You are saying that there is no reason to believe in God, but you could also say that there is also no reason to believe that life is just the what it is.

I don't think "applying meaning to things at all results in there being ultimately no meaning." I think there would be ultimately no meaning if you had to look further and further back indefinitely to find the deepest meaning, cause, or truth. Because there is a deepest meaning.

I think what you mean is that if you read to the very cause or the very truth, you won't find the precursor to it so in the end, the only meaning would be the cause. Am I right?

We should accept what they are, good or bad, and act accordingly! All I mean is there is no sense denying the existence or the nature of anything. People die. People do things that harmful to you and your values. Do something about it!

But why? Who cares if people die and how they die or what they die for if there is no meaning to death at all? Death would be meaningless and the laws which you believe are just as they are would have no purpose. You've excluded the possibility of God based solely on your belief that laws are as they are. But how do you know they are as they are? What evidence is there - something which cannot be argued - that there is nothing more or no God?

The god I believe in does not contain human attributes, especially not the one of judgement. All the speculation surrounding the bible are nothing but judgements. The god I believe in contains only truth.

God is all about truth, but we are not God. We have to have evidence to determine between what is truth and what is false. We judge to determine what is truth and what is false. So if someone is acting truthfully, aligning himself to God, while the other is acting falsely, not aligning itself with God, how can the two people be considered equal? God is the creator and maintainer of Good. Anything that goes against Good in this life results in negative consequences. It is only logical to assume that there are negative consequences for people who act against Law, too.