Personal Development for Smart People Forums - View Single Post - Ghosts/spirits/presences are a myth (Warning: Science included!)

Lotus · 11-11-2006, 01:07 AM

I don't think you can escape the problem of subjectivity. Our current model of physics is subjective to the human condition. We can only construct a model to describe what we can observe or experience, directly or indirectly (which takes some faith on our part, how very unscientific.). We build up theories, then design experiments to prove or disprove the theories, but all in all, building a theory on something as intangible and non-directly-observable as quantum phenomena is like taking multiple, educated shots in the dark... hoping that we'll confirm, through multiple, repeated, valid experiments, that our educated guess was correct. Even the top minds in the field concede that our current model of physics is incomplete and possibly flawed.

At the moment, we have a vast number of anecdotes describing the presence of "ghosts" or whatnot. While anecdotes are not scientific, they tend to be the pre-cursor that prompts development of a new technology for investigation.

Just because I can't see it... doesn't mean it's not there.
::bats at radiation from the computer screen::

You may orchestrate the most beautiful logical analysis of ghosts ever written, but you will never convince me that I've never been in the presence of the paranormal... because in my reality, I have, and it was as "real" to me as the screen you're reading is to you at this moment.

I cannot, with current tech, prove scientifically that paranormal phenomena exists in an objective reality. You already know this, so (um, no offense) why are you wasting your time smacking "science" and "logic" against a subject which is inherantly non-scientific and non-logical?

And (again, I don't mean to sound nasty here) you are in-validating and/or denying a lot of people's subjective realities when you tell us that we're either purposefully lying or that we're deluded/crazy.

And, unfortunately, you're in the company of a lot of people who strive to keep an open mind about subjective realities... so you probably won't convince them either.

I'm not saying "give up" ... I'm just saying, "don't be disappointed if no one who has experienced the paranomal comes over to your side of the fence." I'm pretty sure that everyone here who has had a paranormal experience will continue to insist on its validity in their own subjective reality.

11-11-2006, 01:07 AM	#46 (permalink)
Lotus Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Why is Kansas windy? Because MISSOURI sucks Posts: 138	I don't think you can escape the problem of subjectivity. Our current model of physics is subjective to the human condition. We can only construct a model to describe what we can observe or experience, directly or indirectly (which takes some faith on our part, how very unscientific.). We build up theories, then design experiments to prove or disprove the theories, but all in all, building a theory on something as intangible and non-directly-observable as quantum phenomena is like taking multiple, educated shots in the dark... hoping that we'll confirm, through multiple, repeated, valid experiments, that our educated guess was correct. Even the top minds in the field concede that our current model of physics is incomplete and possibly flawed. At the moment, we have a vast number of anecdotes describing the presence of "ghosts" or whatnot. While anecdotes are not scientific, they tend to be the pre-cursor that prompts development of a new technology for investigation. Just because I can't see it... doesn't mean it's not there. ::bats at radiation from the computer screen:: You may orchestrate the most beautiful logical analysis of ghosts ever written, but you will never convince me that I've never been in the presence of the paranormal... because in my reality, I have, and it was as "real" to me as the screen you're reading is to you at this moment. I cannot, with current tech, prove scientifically that paranormal phenomena exists in an objective reality. You already know* this, so (um, no offense) why are you wasting your time smacking "science" and "logic" against a subject which is inherantly non-scientific and non-logical?* And (again, I don't mean to sound nasty here) you are in-validating and/or denying a lot of people's subjective realities when you tell us that we're either purposefully lying or that we're deluded/crazy. And, unfortunately, you're in the company of a lot of people who strive to keep an open mind about subjective realities... so you probably won't convince them either. I'm not saying "give up" ... I'm just saying, "don't be disappointed if no one who has experienced the paranomal comes over to your side of the fence." I'm pretty sure that everyone here who has had a paranormal experience will continue to insist on its validity in their own subjective reality.