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Originally Posted by Anagogy  IAlso, I feel that any definition of god is simply an attempt to understand it better. We are all humans trying to understand something infinite with our seemingly finite minds. I don't feel that giving what is referenced as "god" the label of "consciousness" limits it anymore than giving god the label of "beyond consciousness" does. And the idea that god is beyond consciousness is a concept too, ironically enough. So if god is more than "All That Is", I'm at a bit of a loss for what else that entails -- perhaps All That Is Not?
Perhaps a bit of explanation why you feel the "I" is not consciousness is in order? |
OK, I'll try and lay out my stall as plainly as I can.
1) Intro
I understand exactly when people say "I am consciousness" or "All is consciousness", and I have believed this quite fervently myself until quite recently.
All I am saying here is, "Maybe it ain't necessarily so". I am just asking the question, pushing the envelope.
In recent years, this belief seems to have become the new orthodoxy, replacing the more traditional religious beliefs. In ten, twenty, thirty years time, terms like "consciousness" may be redundant, having been replaced with other terms/ models/alternatives.
2) Semantics.
We all have our own ideas of what consciousness is, but, for the sake of argument, let' s go with the generally accepted dictionary definition:
The state of being conscious, aware; awareness.
If it is then a state you experience, can you then be that state?
If you are hungry, are you hunger?
If you are happy, are you happiness?
If you are conscious, are you consciousness?
3) The sea of consciousness analogy.
This analogy has been used many times before to illustrate consciousness.
We are all in the sea of consciousness. The water is all around us and within us and we are connected by the water. But does that mean you are the water?
The "I" is the essential you (whether you perceive through the ego or not). I am asking, is the "I" dependent on consciousness. Can the "I" exist without consciousness? Can there be something more?
When I said "I have my consciousness and you have yours", I meant that we have our own, individual fields of perception and awareness.
4) Mind
We also have our own, individual minds - containers where we store our thoughts and memories. Generally, I don't know what's in your mind and you don't know what's in mine, until we reveal it and communicate it. I say generally, because there are gifted people who can "see" into minds and pick up others' thoughts and memories. Minds overlap, and there may well be minds within minds.
5) The Mind/Consciousness Paradigm
If you say you are consciousness, that seems to imply that you are what you perceive as you have to be conscious of something. If that is the case, everything you perceive is in the mind. This may lead to the conclusion that you are mind or that God is mind (Christian Science). Personally, I don't hold with that. For me the Mind/Consciousness Paradigm, ultimately, is an illusion. The true "I" may be immersed in it or infuse its presence into it, but is not it.
No one is willing to be led further than he can see.