[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

I would consider 'acting knowingly' to be an appropriate use of knowledge and so I don't disagree with you. I would also agree that providing a different frame of reference is a worthwhile use of knowledge.

In which case, you're not teaching them to use knowledge so much as to recall their knowledge when they act. I think that this would arise naturally from the desire to know, but perhaps it wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

I admit the implication that use of knowledge be material use was misleading.

It's not that; it's the idea that knowledge can never be an end unto itself. That is the idea I disagree with. I was a bit concerned with keeping the concept of what "usage" meant narrow, and intentional about keeping the definition of "knowledge" vague, because these are very difficult and elusive terms to put one's finger on.

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

if the curriculum doesn't include appropriate teaching of the application of knowledge, then it's failing in the often stated goal of preparing us to enter the workforce. In terms of a truly worthwhile educational system the lack may be unimportant, but in regards to the failings of the current system it seems much more relevant.

I disagree; it depends largely on what phase of education you speak of, and a large amount of context and the like. There are no shortage of arguments that the current system prepares us all too well for entrance into the workforce: as mindless automatons marching to the same drummer. Most of us here are in agreement (to speak presumptively) that this is not a worthy goal of education.

But the actual thrust of our belief, to continue my presumptions, is not merely that education is faulty, but indeed so, too, is our workforce. One important concern is the one Steve brings up here; I agree with his conclusions, and look forward to the future.

We should "redesign" our workforce, somehow, but I question the assertion that education is a means to an end, specifically, joining the workforce. The specifics of this, or even the more general aspects, my philosophy hasn't fully addressed yet, so I'm not ready to go on and on about it.

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

What do you think are the real causes, and what are the solutions? Instilling a desire for knowledge would obviously be a great start, but how could that be achieved more effectively than it is now?

Put simply, I don't know. I work very intuitively, so my intuition draws up a conclusion to begin with and then I fill in the blanks to get myself from where I am to where my intuition is pointing. Certainly, the misconception of the workforce is problematic, and the relationship that the education industry (why is it an industry?) has to it is also problematic. I like neither situation.

Doku, above, suggests the now-commonplace analogy between the school and the factory. I've noticed a recent trend in schools to attempt to displace this, but eh... I still think it's a problem. The factory analogy has two parts: (1) that schools are designed to train people to become factory workers, but more importantly (and not suggested by Doku), (2) that schools act as factories.

The latter conclusion is that schools are handed raw material in the form of children, process them, and ship out the resultant shiny packages. They're even branded. This analogy is unfortunately apt, and the new era of business has not yet dawned sufficiently to warrant a widespread attempt at breaking the analogy by educational institutions. The vast majority of business institutions still work using industrial age techniques, so why should schools do any differently?

And even knowing all of this, even understanding it deeper than I already do, considering an effective solution is orders of magnitude harder. I don't accept Doku's perspective, because I cannot agree with caste structures, even if they're merely implied. The Walmart greeters are human beings, too, and deserve a chance at consciousness, empowerment, and fraternity as much as the rest of us.