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Originally Posted by Michael Chui  Quote: Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang
A self conscious mind, I gather, is a definition of that part of you that isn't programmed into the subconsiousness. So that answer to : is a self-conscious mind programmed? would be no - kind of by it's definition.
| Instead of responding directly to this, I'd like ask whether or not you consider yourself a competent computer programmer. I'm not presuming that you are one at all, but that falls inside the parameters of the question. |
Do I consider myself (or rather, my self conscious mind) to be a competent programer of my subconscious? By all means. I walk and I had to figure that out and get my subconscious to learn that. I don't think I could walk without the help of my programable subconscious. However some of my competency is lacking since I may have put somethings in my subconscious while I wasn't watching or wasn't thinking/evaluating a lot. I may have just looked at what my parents were doing for examples and then took their ways to be what I'll do. I have some limited beliefs or there are behaviour patterns that I could do without.
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Originally Posted by wolfgang
that line is that only theconscious part is able to hold and imagine the concept of time. Anything that can't or doesn't have that ability is the subconscious.
| Near as I can tell, this definition does not make any kind of statement regarding programs. Awareness of time does not seem to suggest in inability to be "programmed": can you spell out the connection for me?
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So you are thinking, it sounds like, that awareness is something that is programmed too. That would not be my statement. Awareness is the part of us that is not conditioned or programmed. I suppose I'm trying to say that the subconscious is kind of dumb - it's a behaviour response mechanism, it gets programmed by our awareness parts. Now this bussines of time - only our awareness can think of time, our subconscious doesn't think of time (it just wants to respond, as it has learned to respond, in the present tense). Now, you say, awareness of time doesn't mean it can't be programmed... that is a good question. Just because awareness is the only part of us that holds the time concept or is the only thinking part that is capable ot time concepts is not the reason that it's not programmable.
Our awareness is not programmable because we are built this way. (How's that for getting out of the hot seat on this?) We are able to directly have a say over a certain amount of information that comes through our senses, we get to choose what we pay attention to. That part of you that chooses what to pay attention to is flexiable and not part of the conditioned mind. The part about the time being the reason our awareness isn't programable - I'm not sure it is the reason behind this.
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Originally Posted by wolfgang
The thinking mind, or that part of us that is aware and flexible and not habitual and is free will, is capable of conceptualizing and looking forward or accessing the past - this is a function of our awareness. The subconscious is not able to think like that - it's just programed responses.
| So, let me ask something: can you show that the "thinking mind" exists, within the frame of a history?
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I'm not sure what the question is. Is it: Does awareness have a historical record of it's actions? If so, no. I think my awarenss isn't programmed. That's what the subconscious does, it takes all the choices your awareness has made and records them so you can respond again later in the same way without you having to be aware (like mostly driving a car is automatic or walking).
Now I'll get in trouble trying to figure out what a memory is. Maybe memories, I think, go like this - you, your awareness can ask the subconscious what time something happened and you can get an informational answer, meanwhile the subconscious doesn't use the time information for responding. hmmm... maybe I'm blowing up the whole idea of time not being part of the subconsious. Apperently it must remmeber for us and have related time info. I'll have to call Bruce Lipton soon if I continue this.
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(Speaking of which, have you ever read a biography or full-page obituary, such as can be found in The Economist?)
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No, but I'll have to check it out. What is the main point of relevance to these topics? That things can be analized (without reduction) and future results predicted? And this would also be possible (with assuming knowing everything about people) with humane behaviour and therefore there's no freewill or anythin not programmed and as such everything goes down the tubes when we die?
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Also, I've mentioned economics in this thread before, but I just discovered this Wikipedia page, which might be of interest: Experimental economics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (And this article is really, really shoddy by Wikipedia standards; I'm going to go hunting for how to flag an article as needing clean up.)
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Interesting, but how is this like souls or free will?