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Originally Posted by infinitethoughts  Quote: |
Originally Posted by Keith An objective universe affects the observer in an objective way, regardless of the observer's perceptions. In an objective universe, if someone shoots you in the back of the head, you may not have perceived it coming, but you're still just as dead. | An objective cannot affect the observer, if the observer can only percieve subjectively. |
I think this is the key sticking point. We agree that perception is subjective. But can something effect someone if he doesn't perceive it? (eg. can someone shoot you using a sniper rifle without you being aware of it?). If yes, then the universe is at least partially objective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitethoughts Quote: |
Originally Posted by Keith In a genuinely subjective universe OTOH, your perceptions are reality. | Which is the state of affairs. We perceive subjectively. 100 percent. |
Yes we do, but that's not the point. The point is whether or not there's a reality
beyond our perceptions that we can't directly perceive.
You seem to be arguing that an objective universe perceived subjectively
is a subjective universe, and that's not true.