[Person Isac]

Originally Posted by joelr

Well yeah, it is generalizing because karate could "work" and there are all sorts of variables that effect outcomes. But generalizing is something we have to do all the time. It's a vague but quick way to express a concept with going into detail.
If someone wants to know why someone would say karate doesn't "work" it can be examined further. It's more of a probabilistic statement than a literal statement.

There's a martial artist I admire very much who often says things like, "In theory anything could happen but typically such-and-such will." I think his is a good attitude to take. Anyway, I agree with you and think both of us have better things to do than quibble about semantics on the internet .

Well a submission ends in a broken arm, leg or being choked out. Usually if you are in a position to do an armbar or shoulder submission you can transition to some type of choke to put the attacker out.

In a circumstance in which the aggressor has a knife, I think this could be troublesome. Personally, I've only trained in the Hakkoryu variant of Jujitsu and so don't know much about submission grappling. However, I think that your methods would be effective if we assume that multiple attackers and knives are out of the equation. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to put you down or anything. I'm just trying to clarify the circumstance as I personally would not be up for grappling if there were edged implements or multiple assailants involved.

If you take some low-life, jailhouse, beaten by his father, and is now a seriously pissed off phycotic and poke his eye, he'll try to kill you and it might work. Both eyes would be better. But it's easy to miss in combat. Once he realized you're going for eye-pokes as a tactic I think it's likely he's going to start raining down punches.
Submissions are sneaky, usually you don't realize what's happening until it's too late. If he's between your legs and your on your back the triangle choke is right there.
you can probably see it on youtube.

I know what a triangle choke is. I wouldn't try it on someone who I thought might bite or attack sensitive areas.

Here are some things that will earn you a foul in the UFC (list courtesy of Wikipedia):

Butting with the head
Eye gouging of any kind
Biting
Hair pulling
Fish hooking
Groin attacks of any kind
Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent. (see Gouging)
Small joint manipulation
Striking to the spine or the back of the head (see Rabbit punch)
Striking downward using the point of the elbow (see Elbow (strike))
Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea
Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh
Grabbing the clavicle
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent
Stomping a grounded opponent
Kicking to the kidney with the heel
Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent


There are more but they mostly apply to a tournament setting (no attacking the guy during a time-out and such). My point is that I personally would not recommend using sport-fighting tactics against someone who isn't playing by your rules. Anyway, another point I was making is that if you're going to fight, do some damage. I wasn't trying to say, "Eye gouges alway work" so much as "If you get the chance, take it."

On that same note, if you get the chance to leave without maiming anybody, so much the better.