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Originally Posted by Johnny Soporno  It is critical to distinguish between a "Nice Guy" and a "good guy" (or "great guy", etc). |
^ THIS.
I think the same rules go for men and women in this regard.
"Nice" is a behavior and/or social style. It's not a character trait. One can be a complete snake and still be nice. One can be a good man or woman but be a total jerk.
Just to haul out my favorite site...
Sometimes someone is nice and bad:
Affably Evil - Television Tropes & Idioms
Sometimes good is not nice:
Good Is Not Nice - Television Tropes & Idioms
If people are often more attracted to the "bad boy" or "bad girl", I think that what is often going on here is that the bad boy/girl may actually be more *authentic*. Actually, I think Steve has talked about this.
We know what their score is. At some level, many of us know when someone is being inauthentic with us. Something about the person's energy just won't match up... it will feel "wrong" somehow, and if we are healthy people, then we won't be attracted.
"Nice" is just a set of social behaviors, nothing more.
Many "nice" people have their own special way of being jerks. They just do it in a sneaky, dishonest kind of way.
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Originally Posted by MidasGirl If you ask a woman who's having a hard time finding a good guy what kind of a guy she's looking for though, almost invariably the first answer you hear is, 'I want a guy that is nice to me'. So I think many guys are trying to be that for women without really realizing what exactly is meant by it. Women really mean they want the opposite of jerk, but with the other attractive forces that will create the polarizing attractive energy. |
And men can be very literal and take things at face value, assuming that what the woman wants total supplication, because this is what "nice" seems to mean out there in the social world... especially in a competitive, dog-eat-dog world such as the male social sphere.
When we describe someone as a "nice" person in a non dating context, what goes along with that? We usually mean that the person acts somewhat submissive, smiles a lot, is a "pleaser" and isn't interested in causing trouble.
It probably would do us women a lot more world of good to be more precise in describing what we want. Wanting a man who is "kind" for example, is different from one who is "nice"; these have two different meanings.
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Originally Posted by rei this is definitely true Johnny! the last guy i considered for a potential relationship turned out to be a 'nice guy' who put me on a pedestal, came across as needy, and was actually even super polite when i said i don't think this will work. he asked why, so i answered honestly and told him it seemed like he put me on a pedestal and like he could have a wonderful day or a wretched day depending on whether i gave him attention. i want an equal, not a lapdog. |
And when person A has put person B on a pedestal, they're actually relating to an image they've created in their mind... not the real person.
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Originally Posted by rei a word (or few) about the example of gender specific language use...
i'd also say, sometimes people of both genders will use the word "nice" or the word "interesting" as a polite way of saying a person or situation is not their cup of tea. |
Interesting! j/k
Actually, no, it really is.
Often times we women will say "it was nice" and really mean "it didn't TOTALLY suck". Because we tend to be more effusive, if we REALLY liked it, we would've said "it was so totally AMAZING! It was FABULOUS!".
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Originally Posted by brendannz Yeah, but a girl's not really going to say "I'm rejecting you becasue you're a weak guy" she's going to say "you're a nice guy but..."
So I guess the guy thinks "that's my problem I'm too nice"
confusing world sometimes I guess. |
The problem with guys who describe themselves as "too nice":
They are often complete jerkasses in their own special way.
At some various points in my dating life, I decided to give some "too nice" guy a "chance", only to discover that he was passive-aggressive, sneaky, controlling, and in fact, worse than the guy who had a more blunt and confrontive personality.
I've dated women too, but I'm not sure that it's relevant to this conversation since we mainly seem to be talking about men. I think that men and women do mean different things by "nice" though.
Finally, in a way that's relevant to this site...
When we polarize people into "bad boys" and "wimpy nice guys", that's all we see and all we'll draw into our experience. It is I/M at its finest and most simplest example. Probably most people are not either bad boys or wimpy nice guys, but somewhere in between.
There are plenty of other examples of people who are good people who are not wimpy and passive, but typically your filters aren't programmed for them.
It's easier to see them in the professional world than the dating world. Some examples: we expect a good doctor or nurse to be confident about their job and blunt when it's necessary, but we also prefer that they be diplomatic about it... yet *not* dishonest.
I don't like to date the supplicating, lapdoggy kind of people, and it's not because I am just not attracted to them for some reason I can't fathom.
It's because I've known too many, and even dated a few, and they were without exception the most miserable relationships I've ever been in. Ditto for the relationships I've observed between others and "nice" people.
We need to be precise about our language when speaking about what we're looking for. Look for "kind" as well as "good" (BOTH of those traits - otherwise you may end up with a jerkass who has outstanding moral values), and maybe "gentle" if that's your cup of tea (it's not everyone's). Nice does not mean any of these things. It means something else.