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JoaquinFox · 11-08-2006, 05:19 AM

Jaben-

Really good break down of the subject. I too have a lot of passion for the subject and taking a look at this from the viewpoint of a subjective reality is very helpful and educational for me.
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As for anyone questioning someone's ability to reason and logic because not all meat comes from factory farming...well, I still say you have to go back to step one of taking control of your subjective reality and that is being aware and informed about what you are currently observing. If you don't know what you are observing, if you are blissfully ignorant, or if you are flat out denying the state of any given situation then you have no power. OBSERVING IS CREATING. So, while not all meat comes from factory farming it is fact delusional to reason that the ethical, environmental and health problems that are manifesting in this reality of planet Earth 2006 are unrelated to the fact that most developed and undeveloped countries confine, abuse, torture, mistreat, and neglect the animals that they kill for food ON A MASS SCALE. Sure, an animal is going to die eventually anyway, you can raise an animal for food humanely, and eating some meat might not damage your personal in the long or short term....but again missing the point. Of course one person smoking one cigarette isn't going to cause many problems, but we all know that the current health crisis from cigarettes isn't from Native Americans passing around a peace pipe on special occasions. And the same is true from meat consumption the problem isn't that people are eating small amounts of humanely treated and healthy meat....for the most part that's actually a fantasy.

The current state of raising animals for food is a complete disaster on all fronts...it's hurting humans, animals, and the planet as a whole. It's increasing our energy consumption, the safety standards of the food are at best dubious and the more you learn about it the more shocking it really gets. You don't have to take my word on any of this either...just a small effort to become more informed on the topic will produce some shocking results. You may think I lack reasoning skills, but my guess is you don't have the experience and depth of knowledge with the subject that I do. I don't say that in an arrogant way...it's possible that you may have read and studied more than me about veganism and rationales for becoming vegan, but I haven't run across anyone before who knows as much or more about the topic as me who questions my ability to reason.

If in fact you are quite knowledgable on factory farming and veganism and you still question my ability to reason then I would actually be really eager to meet and talk with you. Not for some kind of tete a tete, but I think it would be a really great learning experience.

11-08-2006, 05:19 AM	#54 (permalink)
JoaquinFox Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 22	Jaben- Really good break down of the subject. I too have a lot of passion for the subject and taking a look at this from the viewpoint of a subjective reality is very helpful and educational for me. ------------------------ As for anyone questioning someone's ability to reason and logic because not all meat comes from factory farming...well, I still say you have to go back to step one of taking control of your subjective reality and that is being aware and informed about what you are currently observing. If you don't know what you are observing, if you are blissfully ignorant, or if you are flat out denying the state of any given situation then you have no power. OBSERVING IS CREATING. So, while not all meat comes from factory farming it is fact delusional to reason that the ethical, environmental and health problems that are manifesting in this reality of planet Earth 2006 are unrelated to the fact that most developed and undeveloped countries confine, abuse, torture, mistreat, and neglect the animals that they kill for food ON A MASS SCALE. Sure, an animal is going to die eventually anyway, you can raise an animal for food humanely, and eating some meat might not damage your personal in the long or short term....but again missing the point. Of course one person smoking one cigarette isn't going to cause many problems, but we all know that the current health crisis from cigarettes isn't from Native Americans passing around a peace pipe on special occasions. And the same is true from meat consumption the problem isn't that people are eating small amounts of humanely treated and healthy meat....for the most part that's actually a fantasy. The current state of raising animals for food is a complete disaster on all fronts...it's hurting humans, animals, and the planet as a whole. It's increasing our energy consumption, the safety standards of the food are at best dubious and the more you learn about it the more shocking it really gets. You don't have to take my word on any of this either...just a small effort to become more informed on the topic will produce some shocking results. You may think I lack reasoning skills, but my guess is you don't have the experience and depth of knowledge with the subject that I do. I don't say that in an arrogant way...it's possible that you may have read and studied more than me about veganism and rationales for becoming vegan, but I haven't run across anyone before who knows as much or more about the topic as me who questions my ability to reason. If in fact you are quite knowledgable on factory farming and veganism and you still question my ability to reason then I would actually be really eager to meet and talk with you. Not for some kind of tete a tete, but I think it would be a really great learning experience.