[HealthySoul]

Originally Posted by stanmrak

Quote:

The human body is very inefficient at removing cholesterol from the body...

The more cholesterol-laden animal foods we eat, the more our blood vessels become clogged.

I won't quibble about your other arguments, but these two are rubbish.

Your body does not need to remove cholesterol. It needs cholesterol, and high cholesterol levels are not harmful in and of themselves. Cholesterol performs many essential functions in the body and your liver produces much more than you could ever possibly eat.

High cholesterol levels do not clog your arteries. There is NO correlation between high cholesterol levels and heart disease. NONE. This myth is the result of 40 years or so of drug company propaganda designed to sell statin drugs. It's just not true!

Clogged arteries are caused by oxidation of cholesterol from free radical attacks — not how much cholesterol there is in your blood.

What Causes Heart Disease? The Cholesterol Myth Debunked

Okay, thanks for pointing this out. But how many people that have heart attacks never eat meat? I have never heard of a vegan who has gotten a heart attack.

Fruits and vegetables are full of antioxidants that prevent oxidation, right? So while cholesterol might not directly effect the clogging of arteries, foods that are high in cholesterol and also low in antioxidants. So the more meat in your diet, the less antioxidants you will consume, and the more free-radicals there will be in your body.

And the human body IS very inefficient from removing cholesterol from the body, because our liver makes all we need. In other words, we have no need to eat cholesterol foods. So we should concentrate on eating foods that will prevent the oxidation of cholesterol, namely fruits and vegetables.

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

That said, the human body build is governed first and foremost by our use of tools and the opposable thumb. We don't have the fighting claws and teeth of classic carnivores because we developed the spear and rendered them irrelevant. Similarly, we don't have big shearing/ripping teeth because a knife is much more effective at dismembering a corpse.

If you were out in the wild, how would you make a knife, or a spear for that matter? Would it be easier for your opposable thumbs to somehow make a spear from raw materials and use that to kill a deer or a rabbit, or would it be easier to climb a tree and pick some fruit?

What happened first, humans creating weapons to kill other animals, or humans picking up a rock and smashing it on the shells of nuts to break them open and eat them? Do you really think we learned to make a knife before we would climb a tree and pick the fruit? Our fingers and opposable thumbs are perfect for picking and peeling fruit.

If you are out in the wild, you are an easy prey for lions and tigers and bears, oh my! The spear was made as a form of defense, not attack.

You argument seems to suggest that in the early stages of evolution we ate mostly plant foods. Then, after we developed tools like the knife we could cut the guts out of an animal more efficient than with our blunt teeth.

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

By the same token, we are not "classic" herbivores. We don't have stomachs capable of digesting cellulose because we found better food and don't need it. We don't have the tooth size or jaw muscles either for the same reason. We don't have the massive skeletal musculatures of classic herbivores, or their running/climbing legs, or defensive hooves and horns, because spears and teamwork are better predator defense than any of the above.

You're right, we don't have stomach capable of digesting cellulose because we found better food and don't need it. IT'S CALLED FRUIT. I would assume that if you were to have a choice between eating fruit, lettuce, and raw flesh, that you would choose the fruit.

What other animal, has an easier time eating fruit? Monkeys and humans have the perfect biological makeup to pick, eat, and digest fruit.

How come we don't have taste buds for amino acids? How come cats don't have taste buds for carbohydrates? Because we have both evolved eating different foods. Humans have mostly ate fruit and sweet vegetables (bell pepper, carrots), and cats have eaten mostly meat.

If we truly were omnivores we would enjoy eating meat raw. Why would we have to alter it from its natural form for it to taste good? I would love to see you eat a raw steak or chicken breast. Please.

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

So saying that we're not built to be carnivores ignores the fact that we're not built to be herbivores either. We're something relatively unique - an omnivore that's replaced most of physical capabilities of either type with tools. And our history shows that as far back as we can find human remains and caves, there is evidence of hunting. It's been with us as long as we've been "us".

Do you believe humans invented fire to cook meat before we climbed trees and picked fruit? How are we NOT built like herbivores? How different is our body to the gorillas and chimps? They have almost the exact same physical make up, and eat an almost strictly vegan diet. Monkeys use their opposable thumbs to climb tress and pick and peel fruit.

Please tell me how are body is not built like an herbivore? Your only argument is our stomach not being able to digest cellulose. But just like our monkey relatives, we have evolved mostly eating fruits, sweet vegetables, nuts, and seeds and don't NEED to digest cellulose.

Once we started migrating out of the tropics of Africa, there was not much fruit for us to eat. So we had to find new sources of food. The farther north humans migrate, the more meat they eat. Look at the eskimos, they follow an almost strictly carnivorous diet. They also have the shortest lifespan of all indigenous people.

People who live to be the longest, over 100 years of age and still functioning great, are people who follow a mostly plant based diet (as you can see by the video I posted).

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

One fact to be aware of: many great apes will substitute insects for plant matter if the option arises, sometimes up to 90% of their diet. In other words, they're near-carnivores (or more precisely, insectivores) by choice, but herbivores because of availability.

That's not to say an mostly-insect diet is healthy for them, but it is what they prefer.

Where did you hear this? From what I have read, great apes are strictly vegetarian, they do not eat ANY animals including insects. Other apes, like chimps, eat AT MOST 5% of their diet from termites. I have never heard of an ape eating so many insects.

And just because an animal chooses to eat a certain food, does not mean it is the ideal diet for that creature. Just look at the millions of people who choose to eat McDonalds every day.

What is there in meat that WE NEED? Why can we synthesize all of the vitamins that only exist in meat from plant foods (like other herbivores)?

Why do we have taste buds for carbohydrates and not for amino acids, like other herbivores?

Originally Posted by Tim

Well, I was going to talk about our non-cellulose digesting stomach but Snerp beat me to the punch.
Consider the appendix though. It's much enlarged in true herbivores, to aid in digestion. In humans, it has evolved to get smaller and smaller, to the point where it gets plugged up. If we were true herbivores, why would it evolution try to oust it, basically putting us in danger in the process?
Sorry if I don't agree, I'm just part of the humans-are-evolved apes faction.

Our body hasn't evolved to digest cellulose because our diet has consisted of eating mostly fruits, like the great apes. And just like our appendix is shrinking due to having no true function in our body, the same is happening with apes; apes that have the body of an herbivore.