[Melchior]

Originally Posted by Annemieke

I think that indeed there is a pattern. And that consiousness somehow is that pattern. And that pattern is what influences the energy. Or the other way around.

It probably is both, to some extent. Although I'm not certain about equivalency just yet. I haven't thought that far yet.

I had been listening to a series of David Bohm lately and he talks about just that. It was a series of 5 videos that I uploaded to my blog, and what I mean was in the third video where he says something like ‘the quantum field is different from the electromagnetic field, it only depends on the form and not on the intensity’ and ‘information contributes fundamentally to the qualities of substance’.

So that gave me very much the idea that one force reacts to intensity and another to form. Or that one is the intensity and the other is the form, or something like that.

I listened to the interview and it was quite interesting. I'm not entirely sure why, but I feel that this 'form' not 'intensity' distinction may very well be important in understanding the differences between information and energy if considering those two to be of the fundamental aspects of our world. As he said, it 'contributes' to the qualities of a substance (i.e. a subatomic particle?) I don't think he said that it defined it entirely. Then again, because these two things are both properties of something, I'm guessing that it may be easier to influence something one way than the other depending on the circumstances.

About the transformation of consciousness, do you actually see it is a transformation? Or do you think of it more as a development or evolution. There are some interesting theories about the development of consciousness in Integral theory called Altitude and there is also an interesting theory called Spiral Dynamics. Both have interesting things to say although it is not exactly science and apart from that rather controversial.

Perhaps both. With development and evolution of consciousness, by the river analogy, that would be adding more water (in the proper way of course) to make a larger stream. (or if we were talking about currents in the ocean, it would be gathering more of the surrounding water to flow along with the existing current. personally, i find the ocean analogy much easier to compare with what may actually be happening).

As for the things you linked, I find spiral dynamics a bit too categorical, and too focused on human consciousness, i.e. the transformation of what Anagogy called the base shape. Still, it may have some uses in that regard, but as for the actual evolution of consciousness stuff, not as much. With the altitude thing, the colors reminded me of the visible spectrum of the electromagnetic radiation, not only because of what Bohm was talking about, or the actual use of colors, but because the way I think human consciousness might actually be in this spectrum might just be what the span of visible light is to the entire electromagnetic spectrum. If you consider what Ariel has said about raising vibration, equating to the raising of our frequency on the consciousness spectrum, then humans may very well reach their upper limit just as our eyes reach their upper limit in determining colors past violet. Imagine, what would something at gamma consciousness be like? Infinite frequency might be all of nature (everything), and zero frequency might be 'nothing', complete unconsciousness.

So, then, by analogy, what do we do to increase frequency of an electromagnetic wave? energy? no, that just increases intensity. Rather, it'd be a change to the source of oscillation. This is where the form, as discussed before becomes important, as even if the intensity of a beam of light dies off, the individual packet of information (the photon) will be at the same frequency (what's interesting here too is that the frequency is measured by the energy as well, albeit with a factor of planck's constant).

Wait a second... I wonder if Planck's constant is the factor of conversion between information and energy just as the speed of light (squared) is the factor of conversion between energy and matter (mass). I wonder where else Planck's constant comes in handy... Uncertainty principle for one. i.e. you can't know less than the smallest unit of information? Sorry, my mind kinda just rambled on a tangent there, but it's interesting to think about... it certainly is interesting to think about... but I'll have to look more into the physics surrounding planck's constant before I continue. By the way, I was also looking at your blog entry on Subconscious or Psyche earlier too, which might have spurred this line of thought as well, concepts as packets of information and all. Well, in the meantime, food for thought.

EDIT: I just love though 'aha' moments that just catch you by surprise
Still, I wonder if this is just old news and I simply haven't read enough on the stuff yet... >.>