[dor]

Originally Posted by Narz

dor, I try to shape my worldview to conform with reality. I never claimed that no great thinkers had a religious side. Many great thinkers were religious, racist, alcoholic, addicts. Doesn't mean they're not great. Just that they have acquired limiting habit patterns from society as a coping mechanism. It's understandable.

again you're view and throwing in 'religion' as vice with over-drinking is disingenuous as if it was some 'add-on' to michangelo's life and not the essense of his being? a great thinker like CS lewis? Or Dorothy Sayers?

I'm not rejecting them JHL. For all I know dor is a swell fellow, perhaps even more talented and gifted than the great Narz (), because I see superstition and "indoctrination" (as our friend would say) as a negative influence I aim to shine the harsh light of critical thought on it in order to help others.

because you see it that way. change the way you look at things and the things you look at change. I see it as finding the whys behind the hows. the reason i kept referring you to the physicist minister is because it would break what i see as a false paradigm - then perhaps you could learn and expand your mind rather than brush off some one with a 'different' view than yours . without getting back into a flame war, seeing religion and religious people that way is, in my opinion as false as a creationist view of the world. in your initial post you claimed to be open minded and a free thinker, in so many words- yet you shut yourself off from anyone who might embrace the 'r' word- you're cancelling out a lot of great thinkers.

Being of protestant origin, I used to do the same thing with a lot of catholicism, but right now I am reading st. theerese's autobiography (recommended here:
On the last day of each month, I include a happiness suggested-reading list (yesterday was Tip Day, so the list is appearing today).

Many people have undertaken their own versions of happiness projects. Reading about the changes they made in their lives, and why, is fascinating. Here are some accounts that I found fascinating:And, of course, I can’t pass by an opportunity to include St. Thérèse of Lisieux’s Story of a Soul (becoming a nun).
no i don't plan to become a nun (would be rather difficult for a male ) or catholic but still her view of happiness is an intersting one...

If my approach is a bit harsh it is because that's what worked for me.

perhaps if you tried a different approach you'd get better results. as i said your sweeping judgments and branding/labeling strikes me as narrow minded as fundamentalists, and as i have said elsewhere on this board, religion-hater atheists and fundamentalists seem to be a eerie reflection of one another -

It's all in good fun and it amuses me to see how people paint me up like their enemy (cynical people tend to view me as a hippie while new-agers tend to see me as overly cynical). I play devil's advocate because everyone agreeing with each other is boring as hell, a metaphorical circle jerk. There are no good movies without conflict, battle and resolution. I can't imagine there are good lives with those elements either.

there can be disagreements without them turning into shouting matches- what's the purpose of your discussions to see how loud people can shout at each other - to get people to hate you by insulting their beliefs, or do have an honest debate/discussion.
you can't imagine there no good lives without them so that is life you seek...is it really happiness?