[Melchior]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

The separation is all mental though. In consciousness, all information is communicating with all other information, normally. But when the consciousness is filtered through imaginary "structures" like "selves" or "egos" or "bodies" it limits the flow of information, creating the illusion of separation. All objects of form are created by the limiting of consciousness or information.

What I was really trying to communicate was the concept of "planes" of consciousness. The picture looks different depending on where you are standing. Not to say that is IS different, just that it looks different. It's like a river that is flowing down a hill, but you can only see downstream. If you are at the mouth of the river (at the top of the hill), you can see the whole thing -- how it began, where it is going, how it will end, but if you are only half way down it, you can only see a portion of the whole river (of consciousness) -- perhaps only up till the next bend in the river.

The whole and portion description is kinda like that, where you are on the river determines how broad your perception is and how much of the water you consciously identify with, if that makes any sense. It is all still one connected body of water, but the structure of the stream limits HOW the consciousness flows. Does that make sense?

...

I can see why you are confused, but the way I see things is actually very internally consistent, I'm just doing a poor job of communicating it to you.

But honestly, I don't see how it is any easier to say it is all physical, than to say it is all consciousness. One is limited by physical laws, and the other has the potential for ANY beingness that could be imagined (including physical laws).

I guess I'm partial to ideas that convey infinite possibility.

DISCLAIMER (after the fact): the following may confuse you, or you might completely agree with it. I was attempting to figure out what this thing really was... it's interesting to see where it led me... starts out with questions, results in some somewhat heavy stream-of-consciousness, lol

I'm trying, I'm trying, I really am... My thoughts/talking to myself: I think I'm starting to understand the "planes" of consciousnesses. perhaps we're trying to go uphill then? but why have a picture at all if you can exist without it? everything that you can 'look' at is already created by yourself or am i also misunderstanding this information that consciousness essentially operates on as something that is independent of itself, that the information is really part of consciousness as well? I suppose that must be the case though, but then, where does the structures come into the picture? perhaps they are just an aspect of the whole of consciousness? There's something similar to this from the physical model I work from, a collected system of particles and interactions. Yes, the difference is that one has rules and the other has, well, more... But why is the information limited in the first place? perhaps, there's just a part of the thing that makes it limited. it certainly makes a better compliment to nothingness, I think. granted, i'm more partial to calling it all information as opposed to all consciousness, because without that information it would be nothingness. I suppose that's another property as well? but is there a difference between zero and null/mu? the all is consciousness essentially describes the many, many world hypothesis where an infinite amount of worlds each with its own set of rules exist simultaneously, with even higher "planes" describing the combination of these worlds and so on. of course, then, there can be no 'highest' consciousness because it goes to infinity. no beginning, no end. I'm reminded of the big bounce theory in a way, but that isn't too important because it doesn't need to happen either. the structures exist because they have to then. the all consciousness/information model necessitates the existence of everything, infinitely, of course. Hmm... interesting result: this also means that there's no good reason for qualia to exist for us, except that it has to for something and that something is what is communicating here. in said model, there is also no free will, as everything that can happen does happen. i.e. we're already zombies and always will be. No, if this is what you mean by the all consciousness model, then I don't see any internal inconsistencies in it either, it has all its bases covered, so to speak. It doesn't really make sense to talk about the discoveries of anything, because all that will be discovered anyway. What I write here, may not even get to you, even though somewhere out in the infinite world of information, you will read this. I wonder though, is there really no limit to the information? I suppose not, but the information will be limited in some regions of it. but that's not the whole picture. the reason why I haven't seen anything out of the 'ordinary' is because there must exist a temporal slice of everything that has this to be the case. There will exist information out there, somewhere where I will either accept that this is a possibility and one where I don't, one where I (but there is no 'I' is there, only information working itself out, consciousness doesn't have any role in the matter anymore either, unless consciousness is simply the communication of this information.) Do you know, you've essentially 'killed' yourself completely. You don't exist, existence exists. you are part of that existence and you can't do anything about it. there is no change, because all that change is already all accounted for. Oh dear god, i need to stop myself... now.

Unfortunately, I'm also partial to theories which allow for free will and non-determinism. I think I have figured it out, this whole consciousness(/information) thing that you've proposed, at least to a degree where it has become consistent. Let me tell you, if you haven't already guessed it from what I wrote above, that it has been one a hell of a mind trip. It also brought along with it a sense of deja vu, if that means anything to you. >.>

Granted, I think that it is a possibility; I think, intuitively though, I disregarded this possibility a long time ago in favor of something more... useful... It means I don't like it, and probably never will... Sorry if this upsets you, but from what I glimpsed, it was not anything I would like the world to be, there is no control, only an illusion of it, no evolution, nothing and everything simultaneously (i sound like a hypocrite considering my nondualism ideas, don't I?), all possibilities the only possibility...

Looking back, it appears I missed one of your previous posts, which would explain why I was still not altogether clear about what your beliefs were with regard to the "physical consciousness" thing. Perhaps I will have to respond to some things you said in it.

I apologize for being so damn redundant, lol.

No worries. I look forward to hearing more if and when you respond.

I'm afraid I'm still of the same belief system as well. I actually quite like your perspectives, and they are not THAT different from my own. However, personal experiences with lucid dreaming, law of attraction, and various psychic phenomena has made the idea of "virtual matter" in consciousness seem far more plausible to me than a set of immutable (and objective) physical laws, but each to their own.

No, if I'm understanding correctly, the two systems are very different, like the difference between finite and infinite. But probably, I'm not understanding you correctly still because I don't see how those phenomena could work in a world of consciousness. Please tell me that is the case.

No limits? I gave myself no limits. Infinity is a stale place to be. If that's really the case, then I technically have no choice in what I'm doing right now, so I'll accept it and just 'move' on. But, and from what I have experienced, at least this of this world, maybe the only world, then I would choose one where there are limits, grand as they may be, and there are rules, as peculiar as they may be, one where there can be change.