[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Melchior

Ok then, as long as you hold the notion that everything has consciousness (again though, when I say everything, I really mean everything).

I do.

Originally Posted by Melchior

So, pretty much a separation between 'you' and the rest of the universe, even though above you said that everything was/has consciousness. So there's really two consciousnesses you're talking about here then, one that is the quality of all of existence, and one is the one that you experience.

The separation is all mental though. In consciousness, all information is communicating with all other information, normally. But when the consciousness is filtered through imaginary "structures" like "selves" or "egos" or "bodies" it limits the flow of information, creating the illusion of separation. All objects of form are created by the limiting of consciousness or information.

What I was really trying to communicate was the concept of "planes" of consciousness. The picture looks different depending on where you are standing. Not to say that is IS different, just that it looks different. It's like a river that is flowing down a hill, but you can only see downstream. If you are at the mouth of the river (at the top of the hill), you can see the whole thing -- how it began, where it is going, how it will end, but if you are only half way down it, you can only see a portion of the whole river (of consciousness) -- perhaps only up till the next bend in the river.

The whole and portion description is kinda like that, where you are on the river determines how broad your perception is and how much of the water you consciously identify with, if that makes any sense. It is all still one connected body of water, but the structure of the stream limits HOW the consciousness flows. Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by Melchior

what happened to being a 'portion of the whole'? Also, what happened to consciousness being a property of everything? You see, the main reason why I adopted my current views is because they were the only ones I had come up with that were relatively internally consistent and reasonable/probable at the same time, no questions of why something seemed a bit off given what was already said.

I can see why you are confused, but the way I see things is actually very internally consistent, I'm just doing a poor job of communicating it to you.

But honestly, I don't see how it is any easier to say it is all physical, than to say it is all consciousness. One is limited by physical laws, and the other has the potential for ANY beingness that could be imagined (including physical laws).

I guess I'm partial to ideas that convey infinite possibility.

Originally Posted by Melchior

Also, I never argued that consciousness was restricted to the brain or was local for that matter. If you read my response to Rockchick26 in my first 'lengthy' post on this thread, you'll see what I mean. Speaking of which, after looking back at it, it seems as though I'm simply repeating myself in this current discussion... sigh... >.>

Looking back, it appears I missed one of your previous posts, which would explain why I was still not altogether clear about what your beliefs were with regard to the "physical consciousness" thing. Perhaps I will have to respond to some things you said in it.

I apologize for being so damn redundant, lol.

Originally Posted by Melchior

Seriously, all this is doing is making me more and more solid in my current beliefs, the fundamentals of it anyway... the details will work themselves out sooner or later (btw, thanks joelr for some of this already ) Here's hoping that you will try to see the world my way, or at least attempt to explore the possibility of it, and then tell me why you think it is wrong so that I can evolve, perhaps to something similar to your views, or perhaps to something altogether different.

I'm afraid I'm still of the same belief system as well. I actually quite like your perspectives, and they are not THAT different from my own. However, personal experiences with lucid dreaming, law of attraction, and various psychic phenomena has made the idea of "virtual matter" in consciousness seem far more plausible to me than a set of immutable (and objective) physical laws, but each to their own.

Best regards.