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yossarian · 02-19-2007, 11:15 AM

some ideas:

1) If one wishes to serve others the proper course of action is to serve his exact wants and needs. If you are unwilling or unable to serve those exact needs, then you must remain aloof.

2) One can serve everyone by providing them with stimulus which can then create a desire to seek spiritually. This is a universal need even if people don't consiously realise it.

3) The "correct" (for our purposes) course of action is that which naturally follows when you are in a state of loving the other person. So the "correct" expression is that which you naturally tend to while feeling love for them. I imagine this could manifest in a variety of ways - but I don't think you can really predict how until you're in the moment.

And so essentially the cultivation of that love is itself the loving action, because once that love is achieved, the "correct" action will naturally ensue without any "struggle".

My understanding is that it's impossible rob someone of their catalyst. You can help them work through it if they are receptive to help, you can entice them into seeking by showing them your example or other methods, but ultimately they will work out their catalyst on their own in their own unique way. If you save someone from the Holocaust, they would later find themselves in a situation that produced similar sensations in themselves and so the catalytic process would not be lost and can never be lost.

Rather, they would gain from the encounter of being saved in other ways, not least of which is just knowing you and witnessing your deeds.

I've considered this issue a lot and these are sort of the "best answers" i've come up with.

One interesting example relating to this is the movie V for Vendetta. V puts Natalie Portman through torture, with the goal being to give her catalyst that would help her progress in her spiritual development. It does indeed help her, but does that justify the torture? I think this is a very difficult question that cannot be solved ahead of time, but rather the correct answer will naturally appear at the moment if V has cultivated the neccessary love for the Natalie Portman character.

It's hard to judge his behaviour (where you judge by putting yourself in his shoes) but I do think that the "correctness" of his action essentially depends on his state of mind at the time of making it, as a positive (loving) state of mind would indicate that he was serving her as she wished to be served, even if unconsiously.

I guess you could sum up my opinion with the phrase, "Always let your conscience be your guide."

02-19-2007, 11:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
yossarian Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 851	some ideas: 1) If one wishes to serve others the proper course of action is to serve his exact wants and needs. If you are unwilling or unable to serve those exact needs, then you must remain aloof. 2) One can serve everyone by providing them with stimulus which can then create a desire to seek spiritually. This is a universal need even if people don't consiously realise it. 3) The "correct" (for our purposes) course of action is that which naturally follows when you are in a state of loving the other person. So the "correct" expression is that which you naturally tend to while feeling love for them. I imagine this could manifest in a variety of ways - but I don't think you can really predict how until you're in the moment. And so essentially the cultivation of that love is itself the loving action, because once that love is achieved, the "correct" action will naturally ensue without any "struggle". My understanding is that it's impossible rob someone of their catalyst. You can help them work through it if they are receptive to help, you can entice them into seeking by showing them your example or other methods, but ultimately they will work out their catalyst on their own in their own unique way. If you save someone from the Holocaust, they would later find themselves in a situation that produced similar sensations in themselves and so the catalytic process would not be lost and can never be lost. Rather, they would gain from the encounter of being saved in other ways, not least of which is just knowing you and witnessing your deeds. I've considered this issue a lot and these are sort of the "best answers" i've come up with. One interesting example relating to this is the movie V for Vendetta. V puts Natalie Portman through torture, with the goal being to give her catalyst that would help her progress in her spiritual development. It does indeed help her, but does that justify the torture? I think this is a very difficult question that cannot be solved ahead of time, but rather the correct answer will naturally appear at the moment if V has cultivated the neccessary love for the Natalie Portman character. It's hard to judge his behaviour (where you judge by putting yourself in his shoes) but I do think that the "correctness" of his action essentially depends on his state of mind at the time of making it, as a positive (loving) state of mind would indicate that he was serving her as she wished to be served, even if unconsiously. I guess you could sum up my opinion with the phrase, "Always let your conscience be your guide."