Personal Development for Smart People Forums - View Single Post - Why Some People Are Better Manifesters Than Others (Blog)

Juki Schor · 09-01-2009, 07:45 PM

Hello Steve, thanks for answering anyway. You expect that I will be incapable to accept what you have to say. My comment on this is a sentence from your blog “The meaning of life”: “If everyone is just accepting all of this blindly and no one is even questioning it, why should I believe it?”

I still would like to know if this is the essence of your “model of reality” as bluedragon wrote:

...Then might I suggest that your model of reality may not be entirely accurate? Maybe Steve's model of reality is sufficient to explain this contradiction, while you find his explanation "cynical" because you have a different model of reality (you believe that there are "some people" outside of your consciousness).
Maybe there is only one consciousness, and then it doesn't matter what happens to "some people" who manifest war and poverty, because those people are just bodies made of flesh and blood, while the soul is only one, the only consciousness that exists, that manifests poverty for some of the bodies, and abundance for others.

If I would say about a piece of art that it is “just” a piece of canvas covered with oil spots or about a forest that it is just a collection of trees made of wood, I would be called ignorant, or worse. But when somebody says this about a living human body, it is an “accurate model of reality”????

You recommended to me that “subjectively speaking, you need only consider reality from the framework of your own conscious development. Pay attention to the contrast you experience, and realize that these are your lessons to undertake.”

This is exactly what I am doing here and the model of reality described above is one part of the contrast I experienced. When you say that “those people are just bodies made of flesh and blood”, you are talking about me, because I am one of those “mediocre, worthless” people. I have had people treating my body as a worthless piece of flesh and blood with presumably no consciousness, no feelings, no own desires or needs, and they didn't care about what happened to me. It has taken me years to recover from this “contrast” and that is why I can say that there is no lesson to be learnt from war, poverty and suffering that I couldn't have done without or couldn't have learnt in a different way. It is just painful and frightening. And don't tell me I manifested that myself as a child. This is the most cruel belief that has ever been put into this world, that there is evil in little children that needs to be “destroyed”. Ridiculous.

In a post in this context, Mannoman wrote this about what you would say (as you haven't I can't tell if you really would):
Steve is going to rip into you if he reads this. He will say: "All of us" are just people in your reality. Why are you choosing to manifest less than ideal lives for the people in your reality? That's a question only you can answer.

So now I am asking you: If it is true that our beliefs create reality for other people, why are you then putting out this dinosaur model of reality above? If you believe that people need war to learn how to appreciate peace and poverty to learn how to appreciate abundance, that is how it is going to be, or not? I thought you have dropped the catholic church, but it seems you are at the forefront of establishing their middle age model again.

If LOA is true, then our inside influences the outside. So people create wars when there is war inside, and there is war inside when they have come into contact with a “consciousness” that considers their body to be worthless and that their lives don't matter. They had a bad experience from this and bad experiences tend to create negative beliefs. And as beliefs tend to manifest when the power of the mind grows over time, they manifest their beliefs at some point in life, often again towards their children. There is nothing to learn, just suffering, it has been going on for centuries. Instead of going to the core of the problem, all you can say is “Try appreciating war and poverty for what they can teach you, and see where that gets you”. I call this cynic.

I was told that I believe that there are people outside of my consciousness. As you suggest that I am incapable of grasping the vastness of your theory I consider this a possibility, after all, my consciousness is limited. All I am saying is that my experienced reality matches exactly the belief system that has been put out here and it seems you are not conscious about the consequences of these beliefs to “those people”.
I have no clue why the idea that there is only one consciousness justifies the conclusion that “it doesn't matter what happens to some people”? Would it be different if there was a second consciousness? Then create one. There is definitely a consciousness out there that doesn't care about “what happens to some people”, you can see it in action every day. As you seem to be able to change anything and everything in this world, why don't you just evolve this “indifferent skyscraper consciousness” into something better?
And why is it ok for the one-and-only-soul to manifest poverty for some and abundance for others? What about getting a second soul then who has some more “evolved” ideas about bodies and people on stock?

I am not trying to “shoe-horn” my subjective view on life through an objective lens (whatever that means). My subjective “self” has been put into this very “model of reality” that is considered to be objective and accurate, the results were painful and frightening and my subjective opinion about this model after a decent reality check is that it sucks.

I am asking for care in choosing thoughts and respect for life and body of other people. You wrote: “ [I ]see the main purpose of my life as serving the process of evolution. “ I just wanted to remind you that this does exclude the right to decide on the worth or unworth of other people's bodies or lives. I have great respect for a lot of your thoughts, but this is completely unacceptable for me and I think it should be possible to write about this in a discussion forum without being ridiculed. I apologize for the snappy tone, but as I am not enlightened (like the rest of you here?), I tend to still get angry at times.

09-01-2009, 07:45 PM	#82 (permalink)
Juki Schor Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 11	Hello Steve, thanks for answering anyway. You expect that I will be incapable to accept what you have to say. My comment on this is a sentence from your blog “The meaning of life”: “If everyone is just accepting all of this blindly and no one is even questioning it, why should I believe it?” I still would like to know if this is the essence of your “model of reality” as bluedragon wrote: ...Then might I suggest that your model of reality may not be entirely accurate? Maybe Steve's model of reality is sufficient to explain this contradiction, while you find his explanation "cynical" because you have a different model of reality (you believe that there are "some people" outside of your consciousness). Maybe there is only one consciousness, and then it doesn't matter what happens to "some people" who manifest war and poverty, because those people are just bodies made of flesh and blood, while the soul is only one, the only consciousness that exists, that manifests poverty for some of the bodies, and abundance for others. If I would say about a piece of art that it is “just” a piece of canvas covered with oil spots or about a forest that it is just a collection of trees made of wood, I would be called ignorant, or worse. But when somebody says this about a living human body, it is an “accurate model of reality”???? You recommended to me that “subjectively speaking, you need only consider reality from the framework of your own conscious development. Pay attention to the contrast you experience, and realize that these are your lessons to undertake.” This is exactly what I am doing here and the model of reality described above is one part of the contrast I experienced. When you say that “those people are just bodies made of flesh and blood”, you are talking about me, because I am one of those “mediocre, worthless” people. I have had people treating my body as a worthless piece of flesh and blood with presumably no consciousness, no feelings, no own desires or needs, and they didn't care about what happened to me. It has taken me years to recover from this “contrast” and that is why I can say that there is no lesson to be learnt from war, poverty and suffering that I couldn't have done without or couldn't have learnt in a different way. It is just painful and frightening. And don't tell me I manifested that myself as a child. This is the most cruel belief that has ever been put into this world, that there is evil in little children that needs to be “destroyed”. Ridiculous. In a post in this context, Mannoman wrote this about what you would say (as you haven't I can't tell if you really would): Steve is going to rip into you if he reads this. He will say: "All of us" are just people in your reality. Why are you choosing to manifest less than ideal lives for the people in your reality? That's a question only you can answer. So now I am asking you: If it is true that our beliefs create reality for other people, why are you then putting out this dinosaur model of reality above? If you believe that people need war to learn how to appreciate peace and poverty to learn how to appreciate abundance, that is how it is going to be, or not? I thought you have dropped the catholic church, but it seems you are at the forefront of establishing their middle age model again. If LOA is true, then our inside influences the outside. So people create wars when there is war inside, and there is war inside when they have come into contact with a “consciousness” that considers their body to be worthless and that their lives don't matter. They had a bad experience from this and bad experiences tend to create negative beliefs. And as beliefs tend to manifest when the power of the mind grows over time, they manifest their beliefs at some point in life, often again towards their children. There is nothing to learn, just suffering, it has been going on for centuries. Instead of going to the core of the problem, all you can say is “Try appreciating war and poverty for what they can teach you, and see where that gets you”. I call this cynic. I was told that I believe that there are people outside of my consciousness. As you suggest that I am incapable of grasping the vastness of your theory I consider this a possibility, after all, my consciousness is limited. All I am saying is that my experienced reality matches exactly the belief system that has been put out here and it seems you are not conscious about the consequences of these beliefs to “those people”. I have no clue why the idea that there is only one consciousness justifies the conclusion that “it doesn't matter what happens to some people”? Would it be different if there was a second consciousness? Then create one. There is definitely a consciousness out there that doesn't care about “what happens to some people”, you can see it in action every day. As you seem to be able to change anything and everything in this world, why don't you just evolve this “indifferent skyscraper consciousness” into something better? And why is it ok for the one-and-only-soul to manifest poverty for some and abundance for others? What about getting a second soul then who has some more “evolved” ideas about bodies and people on stock? I am not trying to “shoe-horn” my subjective view on life through an objective lens (whatever that means). My subjective “self” has been put into this very “model of reality” that is considered to be objective and accurate, the results were painful and frightening and my subjective opinion about this model after a decent reality check is that it sucks. I am asking for care in choosing thoughts and respect for life and body of other people. You wrote: “ [I ]see the main purpose of my life as serving the process of evolution. “ I just wanted to remind you that this does exclude the right to decide on the worth or unworth of other people's bodies or lives. I have great respect for a lot of your thoughts, but this is completely unacceptable for me and I think it should be possible to write about this in a discussion forum without being ridiculed. I apologize for the snappy tone, but as I am not enlightened (like the rest of you here?), I tend to still get angry at times.