[Future's Origin]

Originally Posted by Mind-On

How the society will flourish under these conditions? I think it will flourish just fine and a big example for that is the increase in separated(boys alone and girls alone) schools in the USA (as I read). Furthermore, women aren't that vital labors, but I'm not against working women so don't start shooting

Women aren't vital laborers? Exactly why is that? We could not flourish "just fine" if we were segregated. Women currently own 15.6 million business in America alone; 48% of all business are at least half owned by women. They employee 9.8 million employees, account for 1.19 trillion dollars in sales and comprise 55% of all new business startups. Women owned business also have close to a 50/50 ratio of male to female employees, so segregation would practically cripple these businesses.

Women compose 46% of the workforce with 69 million employees. 75% of this workforce works full time. 92% of registered nurses, 88% of elementary to middleschool and 97% of preschool and kindergarten teachers, 91% of bookeeping and accounting clerks, 94% of childcare workers, 84% of general office workers, and 69% of office managers are WOMEN! These roles are essential to a functioning civilization.

And nearly 1 in 4 families with children under 18 are headed by a woman who are the primary breadwinner. For these families, a woman's labor is obviously critical.

Even in developing countries where women take on more traditional roles, they collect firewood, grow, harvest, store, and prepare food, create clothing and rear children. Developing countries that allow women more freedom in education and society experience radical drops in poverty and hunger almost immediately.

Can we say vital? You've made it clear that you don't want to talk about this, but I always feel an obligation to provide people like you with facts that show that I am indeed a vital, capable member of society.

Originally Posted by Mind-On

Do you think I'm against civil rights? I'm just saying that you can't just do whatever you want because you are free!! why do women bodies always used in commercials ? isn't it insulting to women? don't they feel like a thing rather than living being who deserves respect?

It isn't always women's bodies used in advertising, although it is more common. This isn't the fault of women as a whole, and as a whole, women have no control over this. This is big business messing with our children and our subconcious. You will be hard pressed to find a non sexualized and non objectified image of a man in advertising as well.

Originally Posted by Mind-On

I think all of you live in a perfect world where a man won't cheat on his wife because he saw a beautiful woman but I think there is big rate of them does, and he is human and whatever morals he is got he would want to fulfill his needs at some point, as I think, no one in the USA (most of them at least) would marry against his will and I think all married couples didn't think that they would cheat on their partners.

A lot of people are living in a dream world right now, and it's people like you. People who absolve themselves of responsibility for their own actions and put blame on others for their mistakes and shortcomings. Even if a 100% content man did cheat on his wife for no other reason than the women was incredibly desireable and available, it is still his fault. He is in control of his actions and he is making a choice. When people lose this control, it's called insanity, not cheating.

Originally Posted by Mind-On

And when there is something below the surface that caused the cheating why didn't they divorce in the fist place, feelings change all the time and any couple have their problems and their will be something below the surface at some point, but I don't think anybody would cheat on his partner for that, why would waste time cheating when they know that their marriage isn't going to succeed? why don't they just divorce?

Many people don't have the courage to end the relationship, so they cheat. This is very often how cowardly people exit relationships once things have turned sour and they are no longer committed to the relationship. This comes from the mouths of people who have cheated, time and time again.

Originally Posted by Mind-On

I didn't mean for the debate to go on this way(discussing the separation between men and women) I just wanted to say that cheating is the penalty of seduction.

No, it looks like you just want to be able to spew baseless crap about how the evil seductresses make men cheat on their wives and it is in no way their fault. Cheating is the penalty for lack of self control, communication, honesty, and happiness. That is what everyone else is saying, and that is what most cheaters say themselves when looking back on the situation in the clarity of hindsight.

You specifically stated that you wanted a rational resolution to this problem outside of this Islamic solution. It looks like you've been given several, but none to your liking. I'll get a bit more specific with mine and address the seductive images that you blame for this problem. Outside influences can play a role, but only the role that individuals allow them to play.

I think that the way we socialize our children can pretty much doom their relationships. First, we do not teach children to conciously evaluate their choices and take responsibility for their actions. We give children far too many excuses. The idea that men can't control their sexual drives is one of these excuses. We also don't teach children to search inside themselves for what they want. We tell them what they want and ridicule any other desire or lifestyle that falls outside the social norm. I think changing this would change the adults the children become dramatically, and therefore their relationships.

I also think that the mixed messages we send children about sex and relationship cause a lot of problems. Girls are supposed to be in monogamous relationships that lead to nuclear family units. This is the social ideal. Keeping and controling your man are status symbols for girls. Girls are also constantly sent the message that someday this prince will come and rescue them for their problems and shower them with material wealth. I think this has a tendency to keep girls from solving their own problems and making something of themselves. These messages also cause women to feel inadequate if they are single, which drives them into unhealthy relationship. To boys, we say the exact opposite. Boys are socialized to see monogamous relationships as assaults on their personal liberties. Disrespecting and having sex with as many women as you can are status symbols for boys. This in itself can drive a weak willed man to cheat. If he is presented with the opportunity to cheat on his partner, he is all but obligated to do so based on the social standard. It is also seen as a status symbol for a woman to steal another woman's man. I think the slut/stud double standard wreaks absolute havoc on developing sexualities. What we have essentially done is established two distinctly different lifestyle ideals and norms for men and women. The gender roles we show children aren't compatible with each other. This should change.

Both genders are taught to view marriages as power struggles. I have felt pressure from other women to better nag and control my husband, to spend more money on stupid things, and restrict his purchasing power. He is tired of his masculinity being questioned because he doesn't feel the need to go to strip clubs and talk for hours about what he would love to do to a celebrity. Both genders are sent the message that sex is something that women provide men and a tool that they use to manipulate. They are also taught that women don't really enjoy sex and that women stop having sex after marriage. The women enjoying sex message is slowly starting to die off, but it's being replace with an equally unhealthy alternative. How many negative but all too common euphamisms are used to describe marriage? The old ball and chain, buying the cow, etc. I think that as a society, we create a lot of self fulfilling prophecies by perpetuating sterotypes to our children.

We should also do something about advertising, especially advertising toward children. If I had a young child, I would have to drive him/her past at least 3 hypersexualized billboards to get to grandma's house. A report was released earlier this year by a group of pediatricians that say advertising and mixed social messages are becoming a public health hazard. Obesity, Eating disorders, drug and alcohol addiction, and promiscuity and STD's are on the rise and all children are doing is adequately responding to the social signals they are sent. They are doing exactly what we are telling them to do, and it is slowly going to destoy our culture. I am sick of our society allowing well funded corporations the same rights as real human beings. Public health and social progress should trump a companies right to exercise "free speech" to manipulate our children for profit. We really need to wake up and take responsibility for the problems we are creating.

When you look at the problem in more detail, there are many outside influences that can make monogamy more difficult. I didn't even get into finance and stress, the number one causes of divorce. However, people are ultimately responsible for their actions and how they respond to these influences. I feel that you are copping out by blaming the temptress. It absolves the cheater of responsibility. We don't have control over other people's actions, we only have control over ourselves. Nothing forces a person to cheat, they make a choice.