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ethereal · 02-03-2007, 05:16 AM

I'll try to give it a shot

God is so infinitely loving that he allows complete freedom for beings to choose their destiny, also called free will. You can say that parents are loving by wanting to protect their children, but what if their children want something that is bad for them, and you couldn't convince them otherwise? Out of infinite love, you allow them to experience what they choose to, even though you know it will hurt them, and you hope that they will learn their lesson. So human beings, out of curiosity, ate the apple of knowledge (birth of ego and duality), and thus suffering was born. Note that this is just the simplified parable version

someone else can perhaps give a more detailed explanation.

Now, in our universe there is the law of karma, which is basically the universal teaching lesson for spiritual growth. There is also reincarnation, and the ability to choose major lessons for each lifetime. Most of the time, the horrors you are describing are actually chosen by people's "souls", just that they are not consciously aware of it. Through past-life regression people often find out or intuit what lessons they were supposed to learn due to negative karma in previous lifetimes, and it explains why they suffer through certain things or events.

The choice is always there for someone to completely surrender their ego positionalities and attachments to God, and all suffering would cease. But most people, consciously or unconsciously, are severely attached to their ego and deny God. It is not people's "fault" per se, it is just the reality that we're born with an ego and the ego is what it is, an illusion sustaining itself through duality and negativity. People can't help being who they are.

Most people, when they pray to God, are actually demanding God to change something for them. "Dear God, I want ____... please ____..." In these cases, the person didn't really surrender anything to God, they actually want to take something from Him! God is infinitely powerful and giving, but he is also infinitely just in providing exactly what you choose to align with by allowing complete free will. When people are aligned with greed, self-pity, irresponsibility, etc., well what else do you expect God to respond with? When the ego finally struggles against suffering and collapses and admits that it is completely helpless...that is when people pray to God and say, "Oh God, Thy will be done...I am willing to surrender everything, even my life, to thee" and that is where Divine Grace enters where the ego previously staunchly defended its position and allows changes to occur, by assent of personal will (choice). That is why you see prisoners convert into saints, why Alcoholics Anonymous and 12-step groups are so effective, etc. The ego is not willing to give up its sovereignty, even if it takes a person's life, unless it has completely collapsed and hit bottom or unless it was fortunate enough (earned enough karmic merit) to discover spirituality. That's just how it is.

Of course, it is rare to have the ego actually give in like that, so most of the time people just go through many lifetimes of lessons to learn. The thing is, with each life you forget everything that happened before, so you have free choice to go up or down spiritually, and so it's really a long process and having to repay karmic debt is common. Think about all the negativity and cruelty and selfishness in the world today, it seems pretty plausible that they'll have to repay that debt in some fashion, why not a tortured six month old child? Who knows?

Anyway, hope this clears up some of your questions

happy to keep discussing.

02-03-2007, 05:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
ethereal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 511	I'll try to give it a shot God is so infinitely loving that he allows complete freedom for beings to choose their destiny, also called free will. You can say that parents are loving by wanting to protect their children, but what if their children want something that is bad for them, and you couldn't convince them otherwise? Out of infinite love, you allow them to experience what they choose to, even though you know it will hurt them, and you hope that they will learn their lesson. So human beings, out of curiosity, ate the apple of knowledge (birth of ego and duality), and thus suffering was born. Note that this is just the simplified parable version someone else can perhaps give a more detailed explanation. Now, in our universe there is the law of karma, which is basically the universal teaching lesson for spiritual growth. There is also reincarnation, and the ability to choose major lessons for each lifetime. Most of the time, the horrors you are describing are actually chosen by people's "souls", just that they are not consciously aware of it. Through past-life regression people often find out or intuit what lessons they were supposed to learn due to negative karma in previous lifetimes, and it explains why they suffer through certain things or events. The choice is always there for someone to completely surrender their ego positionalities and attachments to God, and all suffering would cease. But most people, consciously or unconsciously, are severely attached to their ego and deny God. It is not people's "fault" per se, it is just the reality that we're born with an ego and the ego is what it is, an illusion sustaining itself through duality and negativity. People can't help being who they are. Most people, when they pray to God, are actually demanding God to change something for them. "Dear God, I want ____... please ____..." In these cases, the person didn't really surrender anything to God, they actually want to take something from Him! God is infinitely powerful and giving, but he is also infinitely just in providing exactly what you choose to align with by allowing complete free will. When people are aligned with greed, self-pity, irresponsibility, etc., well what else do you expect God to respond with? When the ego finally struggles against suffering and collapses and admits that it is completely helpless...that is when people pray to God and say, "Oh God, Thy will be done...I am willing to surrender everything, even my life, to thee" and that is where Divine Grace enters where the ego previously staunchly defended its position and allows changes to occur, by assent of personal will (choice). That is why you see prisoners convert into saints, why Alcoholics Anonymous and 12-step groups are so effective, etc. The ego is not willing to give up its sovereignty, even if it takes a person's life, unless it has completely collapsed and hit bottom or unless it was fortunate enough (earned enough karmic merit) to discover spirituality. That's just how it is. Of course, it is rare to have the ego actually give in like that, so most of the time people just go through many lifetimes of lessons to learn. The thing is, with each life you forget everything that happened before, so you have free choice to go up or down spiritually, and so it's really a long process and having to repay karmic debt is common. Think about all the negativity and cruelty and selfishness in the world today, it seems pretty plausible that they'll have to repay that debt in some fashion, why not a tortured six month old child? Who knows? Anyway, hope this clears up some of your questions happy to keep discussing.