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Old 07-05-2009, 04:03 AM   #260 (permalink)
joelr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantando View Post

Do you think only consciousness creates the physical? What about natural forces/chemical reacions like nuclear fusion/fission - do you think they can create physical objects too?
No evidence for that exists. It does seem that only consciousness can collapse a wave function.
If a wave is fired at a screen and a detector measures it's position along the way and stores the information on a computer then you look at the screen it will show a particle. This is because there is potential information you can look at about the location of the particle. However if before you look at the screen you erase the information on the computer it will still be a wave when you look at the screen. So the computer knowing the answer will not effect the outcome. In that case the usual outcome of measuring the wave as it passes is to see a collapsed wave/particle on the screen. By erasing the information the collapse is somehow reversed back in time and becomes a wave again? If it didn't go back in time to change the result then it simply did not exist as matter because you never held information in your mind about it.
It shows that the creation process at that small scale is determined by the observer only. No other natural process is likely to make a difference.

I'm not sure how fusion would be added to the process. I think if you showed the measurement results to fusion it wouldn't make a difference

If another observer looked at the computer results and then err...expired, and you erased the information there would be no collapse. It's very observer dependent.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantando View Post
If consciousness creates thoughts, which in turn are the vehicle or agent for creating physical reality as we know it, is that reality contained within consciousness or without? This is the area I was addressing earlier, concerning SR and objective reality.

If everything is contained within consciousness, then there is nothing outside of it, because there is no outside. I wonder if that is the case.
Consciousness seems to be tuned into this field of potential matter where it can choose to collapse waves or not. In scientific terms there are 2 distinct entities. Metaphysically there are obviously other ideas but I'm just speaking about this one idea of thoughts creating matter being true at least on a subatomic scale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantando View Post
Do all physical objects only exist when you are observing them, i.e. you instantly create them within consciousness from basic wave forms (SR)? And, do they cease to exist when you stop observing them, i.e. they return to their fundamental wave form?
Hmm, yeah that's the Schrodingers cat thing. That involves a different discussion regarding macroscopic objects. Proof about macroscopic objects being created the same way as subatomic involves more metaphysics.
It's not 100% anymore.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantando View Post
If I begin to observe a basic wave form, how do I know what I want it to become? If I see something for the very first time, like a rare bird (or any object), for example, how did I know that I wanted to create that particular object from a basic wave form, when I had no prior knowledge or awareness of it?

If I 'see' a bird right in front of me with 6 heads and 12 wings, which no one else can see, is it real? Am I creating it within consciousness from basic wave forms to form a physical object? Or, is it time to throw in the towel and head for the funny farm? I don't know.

Interesting.
A basic wave contains some type of non-physical information that says "this is an electron wave". Although it can and does change there is no proof that we can intend a wave to change to0 a different particle.

If you see a bird it is real, if a 2nd observer reads to you the information on the computer screen about the particles location then you now have the thought "I know where the particle is" - which collapses it for you also.

Birds have trillions of waveforms and as far as current science is concerned, follows "macroscopic rules". They seem to exist in a more defined state. There is much still to be learned about the true nature of "things".

Although, we are starting to see this weird quantum behavior with actual macroscopic objects now. Something with billions of atoms was recently seen acting as a wave and following those thought-creation rules. This took place in an experiment designed to view quantum strangeness in a macroscopic object.
Everyone who ponders the quantum world feels ready for the funny farm. That's how you know you are understanding it

Last edited by joelr; 07-05-2009 at 04:10 AM.
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