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GeorgeMagnus · 07-01-2009, 11:59 PM

The thread title sums it up, I am experiencing a dilemma of sorts.

All of this is regarding compassion to insects. So if you gather this is much ado about nothing, I don't think that you could conceivably help me out with my feelings and growth. I just ask that you don't lambaste my efforts as I cope with this.

It seems a bit odd to me, that this matter, in all its complexity and facets is what becomes my first post in this community. While it isn't trivial, and I certainly hope it doesn't come off as trivial, still it is strange and atypical nonetheless. If you think that my past is irrelevant to get insight into this, then skip ahead to the heading "The Present" though it isn't much of a shortcut.

I've fostered insects in the past. That were either down on luck or, in the case of one, seemingly unnaturally attracted to me. In the Balkans I kept a beetle overnight while I rehydrated him/her, that had been crawling around the dry sterile environment that was the hospital I worked in for who-knows-how-long. Not understanding the impulse to kill a living thing needlessly, I make it a point to relocate any creature (mollusks and arthropods included) back to nature. And if an hour later a hypothetical charge of mine is caught and preyed on, that doesn't change the fact that I choose to show care and compassion to it (even though it doesn't have the ability to ever be cognizant of it) and sent it off to not waste away inside a human dwelling, even when it untimely passes on and helps turn the cogs of the natural world.

The Present

Earlier this week, a firefly (presumptively Photinus Carolinus) was knocked on her back on my back patio. I had just let my pack of dogs out and was worried this beetle would be trampled. I picked her up, and noticed she was gravid from deduction. Not knowing much about fireflies, I wanted to ensure her final mission was taken care of. She was no doubt incapable of flight, her abdomen looked unusually long and distended. It was reminiscent of queen ants that have not yet clipped their wings off.

I gave her water which she took to with gusto. And during this "unknown window of time" I decided she would be with me, I decided to endeavor to educate myself and get her to an ideal place to lay the clutch of eggs.

A lot of the studies in the scientific community are really focused on the distribution and the luminosity of fireflies. Not really a wealth of information on ovaposition behaviors and preferences (if at all). All I gathered was "moist soil". I applied a few details here and there from information on close relatives to the genus. So I had a plan of attack, so to speak.

Only, my life is a little off-balance. Okay, it is really off-balance. Delays happen. Childcare takes front stage. So do the aforementioned dogs. Sometimes a brain fart during the course of the day gets me prioritizing the wrong things. Up until sunset (when the beetle would become active once more) I had all this time to manage the household as the stay-at-home-dad, and get the ova site ready. Lately I've been trying to be optimistic in the face of my depression and other issues, so I can understand my reasoning that I would somehow find a way to make it work on day 2 for the firefly (named 'Vitafera' at this point, my questionable Latin nomenclature of "Life Bearer" notwithstanding). Ut just didn't work out as I had hoped. I started to get worried about her sluggishness, as I had read that depending on the species it could be hours to days before it was ready (and that the scientific banks of knowledge were inadequate in being able to distinguish between cases). Some species of fireflies don't consume food at all as adults and only reproduce swiftly. I gave creating simulated nectar a shot. It worked. Vitafera was pacing around vibrantly for someone hauling around that weight, while I tried to actually finalize my judgment on what would accommodate her outdoors (as it required a little landscaping). But I couldn't get it started by sundown.

Worried about her oocytes requiring another spermatophore from a willing male (as the most successful females are multiply mated, and after the second usually for viability and not for fertility), and it being just after dusk I reasoned "why not grab this male flying right in front of me". I'd see if it would work by observing the encounter, and if nothing happens in the first, say, 10 minutes I'll let him go.

Here's where things went awry. Being plucky, he was not content to meet the female in this enclosure. For Vitafera, she did not need a lid. This guy however required it. So I decided to place a solid object, and return in a minute or two to observe if they had at least crossed feelers.

My mind went to crap, and I got distracted as a household of 4 with 4 dogs usually does. The air supply wasn't meant for more than 5 minutes. It was like over an hour I'd say, when I remembered. Horrified I rushed to their side. They were alive, despite the prolonged hypoxia, but certainly it did not look good. Very lethargic, and on gross exam it looked like they couldn't control their extremities very well. Vitafera could only manage to shuffle backwards. The male was even worse off. Since they were alive, I was hoping that I hadn't caused gross CNS damage. I didn't want the clutch that I suspect to be more than 100 and closer to ~150 to be lost. Accidentally dooming two insects, while very troubling to me, I could at least move on relatively soon. But a significant portion of next summer's fireflies snuffed out by my absent mindedness? I don't know if I can truly fathom the impact on my psyche, now and in the future.

With their faculties now, they may really only be the equivalent of what people colloquially label "vegetables". Or maybe they are just unable to control their bodies anymore. I don't know. What is the ethical thing to do here? Is she even able to lay them anymore, despite being alive?

My options were to see if they can heal by maybe regenerating nerves in following days, or euthanasia. I contacted the office of the foremost entomologists devoted to fireflies in the U.S.

The doctor of Entomology I spoke to lauded my efforts and grasp of the details surrounding this. But, confirming my suspicions, spoke of lack of scientific documentation on firefly ovaposition, and even couldn't say definitively the finality of the eggs not being viable inside the mother if she dies without laying them. With a well-meaning, but glum, resignation he suggested attempting to extract the eggs in case she dies first. I mentioned her species earlier because Dr. B. had also told me that her loss of contribution wasn't devastating as the distribution of these guys right now is apparently not threatened. I can intellectually grasp that, and yet it just isn't enough to the potential lives I may have destroyed.

I guess my point is that I am in an ethical position that has no current scientific/medical knowledge to help decide the outcome of. I took her in, the choice was mine, and in doing so I am responsible for the outcome. I am also open to the possibility that the previous fosters I took in set me up for this scenario, and that maybe there was a reason Vitafera ended up with me? Or perhaps it's just random. I don't know. I'm deeply troubled, and saddened, and I need insight from without. I do not have the applied discipline to even ask my guides, in the window of time this situation demands. And I highly doubt that even attempting to contact my guides for the first time in a trial-by-fire scenario is a healthy option.

You guys are collectively my "make or break" resort. Thanks for your time in advance, if not for anything else but for putting up with my usual long-winded-ness and over-pensive-ness. I need to find the road to solace, and I need your help.

07-01-2009, 11:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
GeorgeMagnus Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 14	A Labyrinth Before Action The thread title sums it up, I am experiencing a dilemma of sorts. All of this is regarding compassion to insects. So if you gather this is much ado about nothing, I don't think that you could conceivably help me out with my feelings and growth. I just ask that you don't lambaste my efforts as I cope with this. It seems a bit odd to me, that this matter, in all its complexity and facets is what becomes my first post in this community. While it isn't trivial, and I certainly hope it doesn't come off as trivial, still it is strange and atypical nonetheless. If you think that my past is irrelevant to get insight into this, then skip ahead to the heading "The Present" though it isn't much of a shortcut. I've fostered insects in the past. That were either down on luck or, in the case of one, seemingly unnaturally attracted to me. In the Balkans I kept a beetle overnight while I rehydrated him/her, that had been crawling around the dry sterile environment that was the hospital I worked in for who-knows-how-long. Not understanding the impulse to kill a living thing needlessly, I make it a point to relocate any creature (mollusks and arthropods included) back to nature. And if an hour later a hypothetical charge of mine is caught and preyed on, that doesn't change the fact that I choose to show care and compassion to it (even though it doesn't have the ability to ever be cognizant of it) and sent it off to not waste away inside a human dwelling, even when it untimely passes on and helps turn the cogs of the natural world. The Present Earlier this week, a firefly (presumptively Photinus Carolinus) was knocked on her back on my back patio. I had just let my pack of dogs out and was worried this beetle would be trampled. I picked her up, and noticed she was gravid from deduction. Not knowing much about fireflies, I wanted to ensure her final mission was taken care of. She was no doubt incapable of flight, her abdomen looked unusually long and distended. It was reminiscent of queen ants that have not yet clipped their wings off. I gave her water which she took to with gusto. And during this "unknown window of time" I decided she would be with me, I decided to endeavor to educate myself and get her to an ideal place to lay the clutch of eggs. A lot of the studies in the scientific community are really focused on the distribution and the luminosity of fireflies. Not really a wealth of information on ovaposition behaviors and preferences (if at all). All I gathered was "moist soil". I applied a few details here and there from information on close relatives to the genus. So I had a plan of attack, so to speak. Only, my life is a little off-balance. Okay, it is really off-balance. Delays happen. Childcare takes front stage. So do the aforementioned dogs. Sometimes a brain fart during the course of the day gets me prioritizing the wrong things. Up until sunset (when the beetle would become active once more) I had all this time to manage the household as the stay-at-home-dad, and get the ova site ready. Lately I've been trying to be optimistic in the face of my depression and other issues, so I can understand my reasoning that I would somehow find a way to make it work on day 2 for the firefly (named 'Vitafera' at this point, my questionable Latin nomenclature of "Life Bearer" notwithstanding). Ut just didn't work out as I had hoped. I started to get worried about her sluggishness, as I had read that depending on the species it could be hours to days before it was ready (and that the scientific banks of knowledge were inadequate in being able to distinguish between cases). Some species of fireflies don't consume food at all as adults and only reproduce swiftly. I gave creating simulated nectar a shot. It worked. Vitafera was pacing around vibrantly for someone hauling around that weight, while I tried to actually finalize my judgment on what would accommodate her outdoors (as it required a little landscaping). But I couldn't get it started by sundown. Worried about her oocytes requiring another spermatophore from a willing male (as the most successful females are multiply mated, and after the second usually for viability and not for fertility), and it being just after dusk I reasoned "why not grab this male flying right in front of me". I'd see if it would work by observing the encounter, and if nothing happens in the first, say, 10 minutes I'll let him go. Here's where things went awry. Being plucky, he was not content to meet the female in this enclosure. For Vitafera, she did not need a lid. This guy however required it. So I decided to place a solid object, and return in a minute or two to observe if they had at least crossed feelers. My mind went to crap, and I got distracted as a household of 4 with 4 dogs usually does. The air supply wasn't meant for more than 5 minutes. It was like over an hour I'd say, when I remembered. Horrified I rushed to their side. They were alive, despite the prolonged hypoxia, but certainly it did not look good. Very lethargic, and on gross exam it looked like they couldn't control their extremities very well. Vitafera could only manage to shuffle backwards. The male was even worse off. Since they were alive, I was hoping that I hadn't caused gross CNS damage. I didn't want the clutch that I suspect to be more than 100 and closer to ~150 to be lost. Accidentally dooming two insects, while very troubling to me, I could at least move on relatively soon. But a significant portion of next summer's fireflies snuffed out by my absent mindedness? I don't know if I can truly fathom the impact on my psyche, now and in the future. With their faculties now, they may really only be the equivalent of what people colloquially label "vegetables". Or maybe they are just unable to control their bodies anymore. I don't know. What is the ethical thing to do here? Is she even able to lay them anymore, despite being alive? My options were to see if they can heal by maybe regenerating nerves in following days, or euthanasia. I contacted the office of the foremost entomologists devoted to fireflies in the U.S. The doctor of Entomology I spoke to lauded my efforts and grasp of the details surrounding this. But, confirming my suspicions, spoke of lack of scientific documentation on firefly ovaposition, and even couldn't say definitively the finality of the eggs not being viable inside the mother if she dies without laying them. With a well-meaning, but glum, resignation he suggested attempting to extract the eggs in case she dies first. I mentioned her species earlier because Dr. B. had also told me that her loss of contribution wasn't devastating as the distribution of these guys right now is apparently not threatened. I can intellectually grasp that, and yet it just isn't enough to the potential lives I may have destroyed. I guess my point is that I am in an ethical position that has no current scientific/medical knowledge to help decide the outcome of. I took her in, the choice was mine, and in doing so I am responsible for the outcome. I am also open to the possibility that the previous fosters I took in set me up for this scenario, and that maybe there was a reason Vitafera ended up with me? Or perhaps it's just random. I don't know. I'm deeply troubled, and saddened, and I need insight from without. I do not have the applied discipline to even ask my guides, in the window of time this situation demands. And I highly doubt that even attempting to contact my guides for the first time in a trial-by-fire scenario is a healthy option. You guys are collectively my "make or break" resort. Thanks for your time in advance, if not for anything else but for putting up with my usual long-winded-ness and over-pensive-ness. I need to find the road to solace, and I need your help. Last edited by GeorgeMagnus; 07-02-2009 at 12:03 AM.