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ethereal · 01-24-2007, 05:22 AM

First of all, thanks everyone for the helpful responses, I feel you guys really hit the nail on the head

there's been a lot of factors, most prominently my graduation and living by myself with barely any outside influence and being able to contemplate and study spiritual texts. as helgi intuited, I finally had the freedom to completely let go of the world, and what a relief! To answer your question Stevie B, I used to want to help my dad with his business, earn a lot of money and use that money to help the world. But upon introspection and contemplating how Earth is like a free-will zone, allowing beings to choose, create, and experience what they will, I finally got a glimpse what the masters meant, "everything is perfect as is, the world does not need saving." As I currently see it, the best way (if there is any!) to help the world is to raise my own consciousness, be happy and make happy, and seek enlightenment, and affect people in the spiritual realm closer to the "cause" and not in the physical realm of "effects".

It's funny, I think I do have an attachment to detachment, paradoxically. I've been trying to de-energize the ego/mind/experiencer by withdrawing interest and abiding in the witness/awareness and shunning the world in general. the spiritual ego flares up and says, "i shouldn't be attached, i should be desireless, i should unconditionally accept everything", but the intention is wrong -- I wanted to avoid suffering/fear/pain and was using spirituality as a cure-all, exactly like what Mike said.

Perhaps the point is to not try to avoid suffering, but to embrace love? not to use spirituality as a means to achieve something, but for it's own sake? I did notice myself doing what helgi talked about -- wrongly attributing my desires as attachment and the specific opposite as non-attachment -- but I'm not sure how to find the underlying ego movement behind the whole thing. I'm reminded of one of David Hawkin's quotes where he said something to the effect of how you don't have to surrender your desires, you just have to surrender the ego "juice" powering them. If you can elaborate more on this I'd really appreciate it

Also, how would fear play into this? does it go under aversion, the desire not to have/experience?

Thanks again for the thoughtful replies!

01-24-2007, 05:22 AM	#8 (permalink)
ethereal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 586	First of all, thanks everyone for the helpful responses, I feel you guys really hit the nail on the head there's been a lot of factors, most prominently my graduation and living by myself with barely any outside influence and being able to contemplate and study spiritual texts. as helgi intuited, I finally had the freedom to completely let go of the world, and what a relief! To answer your question Stevie B, I used to want to help my dad with his business, earn a lot of money and use that money to help the world. But upon introspection and contemplating how Earth is like a free-will zone, allowing beings to choose, create, and experience what they will, I finally got a glimpse what the masters meant, "everything is perfect as is, the world does not need saving." As I currently see it, the best way (if there is any!) to help the world is to raise my own consciousness, be happy and make happy, and seek enlightenment, and affect people in the spiritual realm closer to the "cause" and not in the physical realm of "effects". It's funny, I think I do have an attachment to detachment, paradoxically. I've been trying to de-energize the ego/mind/experiencer by withdrawing interest and abiding in the witness/awareness and shunning the world in general. the spiritual ego flares up and says, "i shouldn't be attached, i should be desireless, i should unconditionally accept everything", but the intention is wrong -- I wanted to avoid suffering/fear/pain and was using spirituality as a cure-all, exactly like what Mike said. Perhaps the point is to not try to avoid suffering, but to embrace love? not to use spirituality as a means to achieve something, but for it's own sake? I did notice myself doing what helgi talked about -- wrongly attributing my desires as attachment and the specific opposite as non-attachment -- but I'm not sure how to find the underlying ego movement behind the whole thing. I'm reminded of one of David Hawkin's quotes where he said something to the effect of how you don't have to surrender your desires, you just have to surrender the ego "juice" powering them. If you can elaborate more on this I'd really appreciate it Also, how would fear play into this? does it go under aversion, the desire not to have/experience? Thanks again for the thoughtful replies!