[dor]

Originally Posted by Angela

I'm saying that a person trying to argue another out of being something there born with (like homosexual, or female), regardless of whether or not that characteristic can be changed, would be making what I'd consider a hateful argument. Because it's intolerant and interventionist -- that's what I would call hatred.

no you didn't, you said

There are moral, religious, and philosophical arguments against females, too; the people who make them are generally considered to be misogynists (operating out of hatred or prejudice).
If a person tries to make an argument against homosexuality, which a person is born with (like being female), I would believe that person is likewise operating out of hatred or prejudice.

in short you said" There are people who make arguments (moral etc.) 'against females (? what this means is unclear, I know of no one who makes arguments 'against females' ) the people who make them are generally considered to be misogynists

That is a circular reference. if you intended it to mean something else, the intention was lost on me.

I am not going to waste my time with this any longer, anymore than I am going to waste my time providing facts about northern ireland. I won't respond to your posts anymore.

Michael: I don't think that's relevant, or necessarily true, but I am not proposing anything, only saying it is possible.