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Originally Posted by Angela

I sure don't like your tactics, though. And I won't hesitate to point out the unreliability of your arguments,

I just posted dawkins quotes. directly relating to northern ireland and "sept 11"

Do you agree or disagree?

he said:
a. he blamed religion, and that believe in the afterlife was the key compent to the terrorist attacks of 9/11
b. if prods and catholics weren't prods and catholics there'd be no conflict in northern ireland: In a world without religion, there would have been no Crusades; no Inquisition; no anti-Semitic pogroms (the people of the diaspora would long ago have intermarried and become indistinguishable from their host populations); no Northern Ireland Troubles

Do you agree, or disagree?

I then posted
a. the work of an expert on suicide terrorism, refuting dawkins' claims.
b. pointed out some historical facts about northern ireland (i can go into it a lot further (By the way its' not the only label, prods are also known as Ulster Scots)) and other conflicts where he is clearly over-simplifying them and pegging religion as the culprit. I am not the only one to point this out- its hardly original - its usually people who work in these fields- like Robert Pape (who did the study of sucicide terrorism) who brought this up - HOW DARE THEY CRITICIZE YOUR HERO OR ANYTHING HE SAYS.
c. pointed out he's self -referencing -

do you agree or disagree?

So what are my 'tactics'? Pointing out that Dawkins isn't backing up his statements with facts- just like creationists- he's no better - or the other side of the same coin. He's letting his ideology distort reality. Your only response is to call me names, criticize my tactics, and say smart people won't listen to them.....

You've repeatedly accused me of unreliable arguments. here's a chance- to respond. Please tell me, how is this unreliable?

oh here's Dawkins again:

But if tribal wars are not about religion, the fact that there are separate tribes at all frequently is. Some tribes may divide along racial or linguistic lines, but in Northern Ireland what else is there but religion? The same applies to Indo-Pakistan, Serbo-Croatia, and various regions of Indonesia and Africa. Religion is today's most divisive label of group identity and hostility.
Philadelphia Inquirer | 01/29/2006 | Is religion the root of all evil?

a. northern ireland: protestants are low land scottish
b. indo-pakistan - "In the early 16th century, Muslim armies consisting of Mongol, Turkic, Persian, and Afghan warriors invaded India under the leadership of the Timurid prince Zahir-ud-Din-Muhammad Babur.....this thread- or this board isn't enough space to go into India -but in short, he is wrong - Muslims ARE a different ethnic group just like Christians are largely of Portuguese and Syrian descent. How dare I point that out, eh Angela?
Do you agree or disagree with Dawkin's statement?


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"And I won't hesitate to point out the unreliability of your arguments, especially when you're attempting to discredit an honorable and credible thinker"

sounds more like blind hero worship to me...there are plenty of sensible atheists who disagree with Dawkins:


Michael Fitzpatrick
The Dawkins delusion
'Catholic atheist' Michael Fitzpatrick finds himself repelled by Richard Dawkins' crass and prejudiced polemic against religion.
When Dawkins reduces diverse political conflicts – in Northern Ireland, in Israel, in the former Yugoslavia – to religious causes, he reveals the vacuity of his ahistorical approac
spiked | The Dawkins delusion

the result, ironically, is that he ends up sounding as naive and unworldly as any happy clappy believer. 'Imagine with John Lennon a world with no religion,' he writes. 'Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no Crusades, no witch-hunts, no Gunpowder plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croat/Muslim massacres, no persecution of Jews as "Christ killers", no Northern Ireland "troubles", no "honour killings", no shiny-suited bouffant-haired televangelists fleecing gullible people of their money.'
Would that be so. Many of these clashes – over the Palestinian state, or in Northern Ireland, for instance – are originally secular struggles that have, with the degradation of politics, come to take on religious garb. Even suicide bombing is not necessarily a religious phenomenon – the tactic was pioneered by the secular Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.
Telegraph | Arts | I don't believe in Richard Dawkins