[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by dor

Usually it involves some other value: buy real estate with no money down or something. the value of mine was inherent in the writing.

Actually, I was thinking of textbooks...

Originally Posted by dor

I find it extraordinary that an American could go through high school and college and not learn that...but considering the state of higher education, maybe I shouldn't.

I'm not through college yet. But we don't take cross-country field trips, explaining where all the little sub-tribes of America are. And I'm undecided on whether or not we should.

Originally Posted by dor

but, you miss my point. You were trying to make a point, and in bringing up the Jains to your audience you may as well brought up the Bishnoi (a smaller but similar tribe-religion in that part of Inja).

Fair point. You're right, the example did not add very much. I wanted one example, to anticipate the counter that there was no such thing as a pacifist religion, but I suppose I should find a list next time and choose an American one. That makes me wonder, were most Conscientious Objectors Amish or Quaker? Because I know that their basis for refusing the draft was often a religious issue, but I've never heard a specific religion tied to it.

Originally Posted by dor

but ask yourself, do YOU think that most people reading knew who the jains are?

I expect people to look up things they don't know anything about, just as I do.

Originally Posted by dor

Now you're making me feel bad. Well, I am probably the last person you want to take advice from, but I would say go out and experience some of that abstract stuff.

It's been said to me enough times that I'm already doing it. The problem is that, while I do experience life, I am also very, very quick to discard the specifics from my mind. I am working on it.

Originally Posted by dor

You'll probably take this as insult, but I have found that people who say 'have an open mind' usually don't. If you're going to create this identity of yourself you're going to deceive yourself...a lot.

I didn't claim to have an open mind. I said that my perspective is uncommon. All evidence I have suggests that people generally do not think the way I do. This makes my viewpoint uncommon, if not unique. I can understand how someone who places an emphasis on tradition and wisdom handed down from a bygone era would take that as a bad thing, but I like having a different perspective with which to see things.

Originally Posted by dor

Sports are another example its a lot different to read about tennis than to play. Reading might help, watching might help but to understand you have to play...same goes with religion....You don't think so? I can't explain the color red to someone blind.

As someone who advocates the usage of video games as an educational tool to people with the worldview that video games are trivial and a waste of time, I understand and know what you're talking about.

Would it help, dor, if I told you that I was probably the most passionate Christian in my church during the four years I was a believer? I spent a large chunk of my spare time arguing why evolution was wrong and creation better. Most of my creative efforts had intentionally religious undertones, and I nearly converted a few of my friends. (Nearly, because they were smarter than I was. One friend said that she got enough motivation and inspiration from life without religion; it took me a long time to understand what she meant. I mention this because it's applicable here.) I stopped calling myself a Christian, as stated elsewhere, not because of any theological quibble, but because I felt other churchgoers did not sufficiently apply action to their pretty words.

I once tried to suggest, to the others in my fellowship, a way to understand the idea of infinity better. They looked at me, said, "Whoa... that's deep," and moved on. That was the last time, of perhaps a dozen tries, to push them to ask and search deeper. To make them ask why.