[argonaut1313]

Sorry David but I have to admit I didn't even read your post
I was responding to somebody else.

This is the philosophy I don't agree with.

Many 'established programs' are intrinsically harmful. Afghanistan just passed a law that allows men to rape their wives every four days, for example.

"Established programs" I wouldn't deem to be governmental laws. More the laws of morality/stroke nature that are held by "good/average/normal people"

I think that furthering society means precisely not to fall in line with existing expectations. Laws certainly are not congruent with right and wrong, because the people making them are not always saints. All societal progress humans have made has been a result of people insisting on following their hearts, rather than their rulers.

You got the wrong end of my stick mate I agree with your views of law. But furthering society has to be done positively and in a way that ultimately fits in/appeals to the masses so that the new programs you introduce do eventually get incorporated. For this to happen you have to have the intellectual side of society on your side, and they will be, if your program is pointing in the right direction? Moving forward need not be forced on the masses? (only on multi-national behemoths!!)

I follow your point.
I believe that governments look at their coffers, not necessarily at the individual, but how could they? Things have to tick along.
The last sentence of the above quote is clearly highly debatable but I do follow your gist wholeheartedly. Saying "All" is a bit strong lol.

I certainly never cited gratification as the path to a better society. In fact, a focus on gratification is probably the greatest cause of harmful and atrocious behavior.

As I said I wasn't refering to your post. The (self gratification comment) was a response to xanafax's comments.

Characterizing 'doing good' as a sacrifice, I think, is another mistake. It implies that it isn't really something you want to do. Helping others is extremely rewarding, unless it is done out of guilt or approval-seeking. That was my point.

Maybe my character is intrinsically darker than yours. But my belief isn't that I do good for others or for myself I just do it because it is right. The strong values my mother instilled in me definitely do not come naturally to me. But I have been educated, and these habits have stuck and become conscious decisions I make for a positive effect. An effect to, in my small way, play my part to the furtherment of our species. That is mine truth.

And yes I do sometimes sacrifice my furtherment to help others because I have had others help me and I believe that this action is one of fundamental importance to humans.

Doing good is NOT always a sacrifice but sometimes helping someone else may see you out of pocket? I welcome this temporary loss because in my experience I have received much more than I have given. Maybe that is why I am prepared to give.

Surely being evil is just breaking an established program.
Different societies create different programs for their subjects.

Hindering the furtherment of society for personal gain is also seen by many as being wrong.
All criminal acts that slow down the evolution of people, society, or our species for me could be described as wrong.

Many 'established programs' are intrinsically harmful. Afghanistan just passed a law that allows men to rape their wives every four days, for example.

I agree. That is definitely way out of order.

You have to remember that the majority of any given societies viewpoints do generally correlate to the views of the law in that society. In afghanistan this new law you speak of was probably backed wholeheartedly by the individuals in power and by the men in the country. To put our ideals onto them is a mistake. We -may/are not to- judge a faulty society(??). I personally am not really interested in the afghans folly in their approach. We need to get it right here? Our view of our society is paramount? What shall we do? Slaughter all of the afghans? Force our will upon them? If they fail, let them fail because their society (that is unable to compete because it is half as productive due to the oppression of women) is just unable to keep up?
In contrast, do the afghan women agree with the new law? Do they have a say? Much of our goodness comes from the fairer sex.
(Maybe a different topic?)

I am not refering to(in my statement) societies that do not function. I refer to societies that are actually productive (our's).

I have to stand by my statements. What criminal acts (within western culture) are beneficial to humanity?

What is best for humanity isn't always best for the individual, the few or the minority.

I know that I should have initially painted my views with more lucidity. Hope I have embellished my view somewhat.

Regards J