[Antarananda]

Originally Posted by moviestar

Yes. I have experience with meditation. I can enter the so called thoughtless state easily but I am questioning its existence.

From your words and questions, I have a feeling you have not truly had an experience of the Self, which is beyond even mind itself, let alone mere thoughts. You have made several errors (or maybe you use words more loosely than I do). For example:

enlightenment being the highest form of mental functioning.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with mental functioning. Bliss isn't some sort of sensory experience, but is remaining established in the natural state of Being.

This implies that there is an observer. I'm saying that there is no such thing because you are your thoughts. There is nothing else there.

Incorrect. What dcaldwell implied was that you reach a state where duality dissolves, and the experiencer, the act of experiencing and the object experienced all coalesce into One, the Self. Just because the Realization does not remain permanent does not mean that it was imaginary. All it means is that still much work needs to be done to stabilize the Realization while engaging in the waking state as well.

What you call a peaceful mind to me is just an emotion. It happens when your internal dialogue stops. Suddenly there is quietness in your head and you're filled with peace. For me it is just a state of listening to the body, it's a feeling.
Feelings and emotions to me are also thoughts. So you cannot escape this. Why would you?

Bliss is beyond peace of mind. It is the state of no-mind and no-body. You realize that the world, with you included in it, is all a mirage, and you cease to exist as an independent entity. So, there is no question of having to escape anything at all. Spontaneous thought and random emotion continue to appear and disappear. No-mind does not mean no thought. All it means, is that you have ceased to identify with thoughts and have relinquished ownership over them, thus ending the root source of suffering. That is bliss.

This quote from my Master might clarify concepts:

"Every thought that arises in us is like a bubble that forms, rises and dies. Every thought independently rises and dies before the next thought comes up. For example, if you are sitting in a chair and suddenly get up, the moment you have decided to get up, that moment the thought of sitting has left you. If you are working on your computer and decide to shut down the machine, that moment, the thought that you want to work has died. So, every thought is unconnected and happens in series, one after the other. One thought has to die before the next one comes up. This is our true nature.

Our true nature is to renounce thoughts every passing moment. By the word renounce, I mean simply allowing each thought to rise like a bubble and burst and allowing the next thought to rise. Our thoughts have only a vertical existence, like rising bubbles.

This process of allowing thoughts to rise and die without trying to connect them is what we mean by being unclutched. As long as this natural process is allowed to happen, things are alright. But, we start connecting these random thoughts and create a "shaft". By doing this, we convert the "vertical", unclutched process into a "horizontal" one with linear connectivity.

Here starts the whole problem. As long as each thought is allowed to rise and die, we can take on any amount of load at the physical and mental planes and our consciousness will remain light and blissful. Once we start connecting thoughts, our consciousness suffers and we start feeling burdened. It becomes damaging to our being. All emotions like worry, lust, discontentment, jealousy, fear, ego and attention are purely because we find a connection between independent incidents, between independent thoughts, and we create a concept for ourselves and start relating with that concept. We create an imaginary shaft with our thoughts and we suffer because of this. Living in an unclutched fashion is the way to a blissful life. Just decide that you will not connect any two thoughts, that you will not pass any judgment on any thought or incident."