[John Freestone]

Originally Posted by Coloratura

Well, in all fairness, I just learned about the LOA not too long ago, so I have nothing invested in it either way.

Hi Coloratura. That's a good way to be.

However, in talking about manifestation and LOA, who is to say that the subconscious has no understanding of negatives, i.e. "no" and "do not"?

There is a great number of unsubstantiated claims about the subconscious.

For me personally, it's easier for me to grasp things in pictures, feelings, etc. However, I am beginning to see the same type of dogmatism crop up in the New aAge circles as from the fundamentalist relgions.

A good point, though I don't think the dogmatism is just cropping up now.

I think that it would be wise to at the very least consider John's point as opposed to engaging in a war of creds and names.

Yes. It's not easy to stick to the issues, but we should really if we can.

I also, on the other hand, feel that John, or anyone else who feels that the scientific method and the sciences are the be-all and end-all to knowing and explaining the universe, to consider that not everything can be, and should be, explained away by means of imperical study and observation.
Just my $0.02, though.

I used to say the same thing. I still sometimes entertain that thought. I never wish to discount the possibility that there may be "more to life...", etc. But I find it a difficult position to hold for long. If it is important to know the truth, to learn about life, to see things the way they really are, it is hard to get the better of "empirical study and observation". For those still not assimilated into the hive mind of Secrets and Magick, it would be worth noting how often the proponents of the religion (a) appeal to reason and logic, (b) deny reason and logic when they wish to argue that there is something irrational that they know about, (c) use empirical study and observation to investigate their supernatural claims, and yet (d) fail to follow through with hard statistical measurement, instead relying on confirmation bias and all the other tricks of self-delusion. In the final analysis, there is, of course, no defeating the solipsism, "I choose to believe...and thus it is so".

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You feel the way you feel, because you are new to this forum. Regulars here have seen a few hundred posts between John and I already.

Oh the cheeky tongue again, following an early insult in the third person. How well I know this Acting character. Did you notice that? Insulting me, and saying that eventually in our exchanges I am defeated logically and insult him.

Did you notice how he even pretends to know why you feel the way you feel, because you're new to the forum? It is irrelevant. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Did you notice that I was talking to someone else about their original post, and Acting had to jump in with both feet and jump down my throat?

Those threads normally end after about six pages, when John gets furious after realising that he has no logical rebuttal to any of the points I make, and that in fact his own arguments have been exposed to be highly illogical. At that point, John will resort to name-calling & insults, thereby forcing the moderator to block off the thread.

A blatant lie with a smiley face. Happy New Year.

I concede the earlier point - there are quite a number of physicists who consider consciousness intrinsic to nature, etc., if you can be trusted to have posted true quotations (and I think even you aren't so low as to twist their words). I don't see Einstein there, but no matter. You win. Have it your way. Consciousness is necessary for matter to exist. God came first. God is everything. We make the world with our thoughts. I don't want to argue with you ALG. You're very difficult to have a nice, respectful discussion with. You seem to want to defend your position so forcefully that I find I haven't got the stomach for it. If you want to consider that as supporting your world view, go ahead. You're on ignore, and your last post is reported [ETA: last but one, in fact - you managed to squeeze another insult in before I posted this.]. I will do my best to avoid you on this forum. I don't come here often anyway.

It's "...between John and me", by the way.