[phantom3165]

I really enjoyed all that has been discussed especially What Erin brought. It has been my experience that the basic problem here is not wether angels and demons exist or where they fit into the universal cosmology,rather,we forget that angels and demons are words that denote a subjective association in the individual(s) discussing the question and is therefore understood and assimilated inside said individuals formatory apparatus (brain) based on his/her limited experience or theoretical knowledge of the subject. This is the first mistake. Words are like anything else in this causal reality they are manifested forms and can be weighed and measured. Words can point to a limited perspective of a truth but are not the objective truth since objective truth cannot be defined with words. Our ability to understand the world around us and each other is based on sounds created by our vocal cords in the form of a,e,i,o,u,and sometimes y. So always remember that and you will be closer to a real understanding. For example let us use "love" since all of us can relate in some form to the definition (angels & demons unless experienced are just theoretical and imagination). I say the word love, which is just air rushing across my vocal cords and being somewhat controlled by my lips, and it travels in sound waves, which vibrate at various frequencies across someones eardrums, which translates into electrical impulses that then enter the labyrinth known as the brain. Once it enters the mind we start rummaging through the mental filing cabinets of concrete and abstract experiences all of which are subjective and are fundamentally flawed since our perspectives are so limited and filtered. Love then gets compared with all the individual(s) experiences of love or lack of it and then said individual(s) "assumes" he/she understands what I mean when I say it. Now you might say so what, we carry on conversations and they flow and we accomplish great and intricate things such as civilizations,mathmatics and philosophy but that is only relatively true. It would be closer to reality to say we stumble and cleverly fill in the blanks most of the time and only occasionally hit the mark so to speak. Think about it for a while and you will realize that it is a miracle we ever get anything accomplished. Just think how much misunderstanding there is between different cultures, religions or bring it closer to home and consider your own personal relationships and how much grief and sorrow there is when someone doesn't listen or consider you in a moment. I went way off topic but I find these kinds of discussions while entertaining kind of useless. I do not wish to belittle the question or the answers only to point out that without a common frame of reference and a form of language that all involved were trained in for a period of time none of your conclusions can be verified as being really understood by said participants. It is all subjective assumptions since angels and demons are really archtypes of universal ideas of course and fine energies. I have used many written words to express myself today and they are under the same scrutiny as spoken words that I have discussed but my aim was to be as precise as possible for any who read this post. I expressed that I liked what Erin had to say for a reason. She answered the question from a neutral place and used as few words as were needed to express her points. I completely agree that religions and therefore all of their ideology's and dogma's while containing fragments of Objective Truth, are for the most part diluted and completely misunderstood and mechanical. They have been polluted by man's lack of consciousness and his inability to truely understand what is being expressed. I am so thankful that people like you exist and have found a way to come together and express your ideas and really try to understand the deep longing we all feel in our hearts to know why we are here and ultimately what is our purpose.
This is my own limited understanding and, if I am to advocate what I have expressed, only subjectively true. Unless you can verify what I have expressed then I suggest that you do not believe it. The Budda said:"The hand pointing at the moon is not the moon." Go out and find your own truths!