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dali · 11-09-2008, 02:40 PM

Pianoperformer.

There is absolutely nothing in that scripture to say that the woman was repentant.Not one word!Read it and show me where. Again this is an instance of someone interpreting according to their own system what is there in black and white.In this case though, as in many others it is in fact there in glorious technicolor. Jesus took pity on the woman He did not ask her to make an act of contrition before he could absolve her. He was God for goodness sake not simply a priest!!On MANY occasions He said to people the authorities thought had been born in sin or diseased BECAUSE of their sin "YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN YOU>" HE did not require formal repentance from them in any instance before He said it. Neither had they come looking for forgiveness. They show no sign of repentance...And each time they get up and walk or have their sight restored, ears opened and skin diseases cleansed and cured. He didnt ever ask them to beg for Gods mercy. Not once, sorry. Its all there in the Book unless you read yours through a different kind of lense than mine? This, my dear fellow Catholic was the whole point of Christs mission to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL. Of course EVERY time He did this , flying in the face of official teaching ,the authorities-that glorious magesterium- wanted Him out of the way because like you they believed God required justice before mercy.Jesus doesnt seem to have believed that Himself and I think He perhaps knew the mind of God a bit better than any creature no matter how educated in matters of the faith or religous doctrine. Church teaching never stopped Him. He healed the unclean, the diseased and the marginalised- those poor people cast out because the scriptures said they should be-lepers ,prostitutes (homos?),and forgave them their sins right up until the end.Apparently they followed him ever after that.They had been "found" by the Good Shepherd. They were His "little flock ",whom He loved. Finally the Magesterium who couldnt stomach all of this had him executed as a common criminal .How could the son of God hang about with OUTCASTS??? They just never got the point and neither do you so I dont know why I am even bothering except it matters to me and that was the invitation you sent out when you started this whole thread. You said you would not judge, you would not place your beliefs over anothers. That you were genuinely interested to see how we all approached the idea of God... but I digress

...There IS everything to suggest that the poor woman taken in adultery was terrified and who wouldnt be given the circumstances?Jesus in fact is displaying Gods mercy which is not dependant on human action -especially, surely ,in cases of abuse or bullying? The woman was being abused. Theres no way out of that.. God does not require abused persons to apologise for their part in the abuse.It is clear to me from reading it that Jesus might have been encouraging her accusers to take responsibility for their own actions and "Turn back to God"which is the true meaning of repentance. Jesus was in fact showing "the church" ,those men in authority HOW to repent aka DROP YOUR STONES.

I know full well how hard it is for people who believe in their churches and their books but whenever we put any teaching above the EXAMPLE of our Lord we are very much in danger of sin ourselves and that is the case EVEN if your name is Benedict16 or Martin Luther or Pianoperformer or Dali.

God established Israel did he not and Jesus dared to show Israel mercy over Justice. Jesus established the Church and since he is the same yesterday today and forever I suggest it is reasonable to assume that He has not changed His tune?

You see an eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind and I think Jesus knew that.As one catholic to another,PP, have you never read Therese of Lisieux? She is a great authority on this subject . To her justice was deplorable when put above the idea of Gods mercy and she loved both the Church and our Lord with her whole being.So does Christ but He doesnt demand repentance BEFORE mercy. Theres plenty time to turn back to Him and every reason to when the hole in your soul has been touched by the hand of someone who loves you for who you are. Straight men cant get this in the main because they know nothing of internalized oppression and generally dont know what it is to be marginalised/outcast. Thankfully and by the way he was treated himself Jesus had a handle on it.

I saw a young priest on the telly once who had been working a long time among people who were dying of AIDS, and their families. He had come to realise that at the end the only part or their bodies these young men could feel any sensation in was their feet so he used to stroke their feet and encouraged their partners and their parents to do so too if they were around. Once he even kissed a young guy on the mouth because the boy had told him that the lack of a kiss, the fact that nobody WANTED to ever kiss him again BROKE HIS HEART.So the young priest kissed him mouth to mouth, man to man. The Church authorities on hearing about the "radical "nature of this priests approach had him removed from his post and placed a hard liner there in place of him.

Who was being Jesus here? What do you really think. IN YOUR HEART NOT YOUR HEAD.

dali

11-09-2008, 02:40 PM	#638 (permalink)
dali Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: scotland Posts: 218	Pianoperformer. There is absolutely nothing in that scripture to say that the woman was repentant.Not one word!Read it and show me where. Again this is an instance of someone interpreting according to their own system what is there in black and white.In this case though, as in many others it is in fact there in glorious technicolor. Jesus took pity on the woman He did not ask her to make an act of contrition before he could absolve her. He was God for goodness sake not simply a priest!!On MANY occasions He said to people the authorities thought had been born in sin or diseased BECAUSE of their sin "YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN YOU>" HE did not require formal repentance from them in any instance before He said it. Neither had they come looking for forgiveness. They show no sign of repentance...And each time they get up and walk or have their sight restored, ears opened and skin diseases cleansed and cured. He didnt ever ask them to beg for Gods mercy. Not once, sorry. Its all there in the Book unless you read yours through a different kind of lense than mine? This, my dear fellow Catholic was the whole point of Christs mission to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL. Of course EVERY time He did this , flying in the face of official teaching ,the authorities-that glorious magesterium- wanted Him out of the way because like you they believed God required justice before mercy.Jesus doesnt seem to have believed that Himself and I think He perhaps knew the mind of God a bit better than any creature no matter how educated in matters of the faith or religous doctrine. Church teaching never stopped Him. He healed the unclean, the diseased and the marginalised- those poor people cast out because the scriptures said they should be-lepers ,prostitutes (homos?),and forgave them their sins right up until the end.Apparently they followed him ever after that.They had been "found" by the Good Shepherd. They were His "little flock ",whom He loved. Finally the Magesterium who couldnt stomach all of this had him executed as a common criminal .How could the son of God hang about with OUTCASTS??? They just never got the point and neither do you so I dont know why I am even bothering except it matters to me and that was the invitation you sent out when you started this whole thread. You said you would not judge, you would not place your beliefs over anothers. That you were genuinely interested to see how we all approached the idea of God... but I digress ...There IS everything to suggest that the poor woman taken in adultery was terrified and who wouldnt be given the circumstances?Jesus in fact is displaying Gods mercy which is not dependant on human action -especially, surely ,in cases of abuse or bullying? The woman was being abused. Theres no way out of that.. God does not require abused persons to apologise for their part in the abuse.It is clear to me from reading it that Jesus might have been encouraging her accusers to take responsibility for their own actions and "Turn back to God"which is the true meaning of repentance. Jesus was in fact showing "the church" ,those men in authority HOW to repent aka DROP YOUR STONES. I know full well how hard it is for people who believe in their churches and their books but whenever we put any teaching above the EXAMPLE of our Lord we are very much in danger of sin ourselves and that is the case EVEN if your name is Benedict16 or Martin Luther or Pianoperformer or Dali. God established Israel did he not and Jesus dared to show Israel mercy over Justice. Jesus established the Church and since he is the same yesterday today and forever I suggest it is reasonable to assume that He has not changed His tune? You see an eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind and I think Jesus knew that.As one catholic to another,PP, have you never read Therese of Lisieux? She is a great authority on this subject . To her justice was deplorable when put above the idea of Gods mercy and she loved both the Church and our Lord with her whole being.So does Christ but He doesnt demand repentance BEFORE mercy. Theres plenty time to turn back to Him and every reason to when the hole in your soul has been touched by the hand of someone who loves you for who you are. Straight men cant get this in the main because they know nothing of internalized oppression and generally dont know what it is to be marginalised/outcast. Thankfully and by the way he was treated himself Jesus had a handle on it. I saw a young priest on the telly once who had been working a long time among people who were dying of AIDS, and their families. He had come to realise that at the end the only part or their bodies these young men could feel any sensation in was their feet so he used to stroke their feet and encouraged their partners and their parents to do so too if they were around. Once he even kissed a young guy on the mouth because the boy had told him that the lack of a kiss, the fact that nobody WANTED to ever kiss him again BROKE HIS HEART.So the young priest kissed him mouth to mouth, man to man. The Church authorities on hearing about the "radical "nature of this priests approach had him removed from his post and placed a hard liner there in place of him. Who was being Jesus here? What do you really think. IN YOUR HEART NOT YOUR HEAD. dali Last edited by dali; 11-09-2008 at 07:10 PM.