[Wulfen]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Heh. I didn't expect that to get noticed so quickly. So first, no, that wasn't a personal attack: it was a point that the PUA mentality isn't a universally correct worldview, because it assumes that everyone in the world is heterosexual. I actually did go and talk to a gay friend after I made that post and he told me that the techniques were essentially the same, which I can definitely buy. But the point is that there is nothing essentially masculine about the PUA's perspective, and there is nothing intrinsically feminine about the person the PUA attempts to pick up. I think that's missed by people, especially male heterosexuals.

Very true. In every seduction, there's a seducer and a "seducee". True for gay relationships. True for a salesman and a buyer. This is a very good point.

The OP hasn't actually given us enough information for any of us to actually suggest a "correct" way to handle his crisis. I believe this is actually because he doesn't have that information himself. In order to get this information, you have to communicate. You yourself are just as aware as I am that your advice isn't going to help him: he's not PUA material, and he's not going to be anytime fast. Dump and run isn't going to help him: he'll merely become serial until he loses all attractiveness completely. What good is that?

It would be smarter, if you ask me, to actually talk to her, because he has a chance to hear, from her mouth, what she thinks of him, why she thinks her boss is more attractive, and so on. If he doesn't understand it, I wouldn't be surprised if he came back here and asked, at which point you could start explaining How Things Work. If he understands, then he's quite bright. And if he becomes a puppy dog, well, nothing really changes, eh? And he'd also probably come back here. Hearing it directly from her solidifies the point, because it's far harder not to believe it.

Fair enough. You have a point here. TheColonel's point of view, and mine as well, are of a "though love", a "wake up and smell the rats" attitude. Yours is more of a "communicate and learn what was wrong with your attitude".

The main problem I see with your approach is that if he asks the girl what did he do wrong, she's not gonna say someting in the lines of:

"You were not man enough and I had sex with someone who gave me more emotions that you"

No, instead she'll say something in the lines:

"It's not you, it's me"

To protect his feelings. Girls, as a general rule, prefer good feelings over hard, cold truth. That's why they say "I consider you as a friend" instead of "You don't have the qualities I seek in a sex partner".

But you have a point in that our harsh advice might be, well, too harsh I am thinking about a way to trasmit the same message in a more subtle way, so that more guys like the OP can "wake up", but I'm still pondering on this.

Think about it. What is the objective in this situation? Is his objective the same objective you'd have? I think that's clearly not true. He needs her to make a conscious decision between himself and her boss. Granted, we can be pretty sure what will happen, but is his pride really so important? His objective isn't to survive this or to rebound quickly; he needs to know what his possibilities actually are. He needs to learn.

Would it be better to be ignorant, but proud--or capable of handling things better from the start next time, having been humbled once before?

The emphasis on "He needs to learn" is mine. I think you hit the nail on the head there. In what we differ is in how to learn. I think what he needs to do is understand that he was not giving this girl what she needed, and he was being desperate, needy, jealous and had oneitis, all unattractive qualities.

I think we can explain him why he did all of this and why is it all wrong, from an objective perspective. But your approach might have value too.

You are a smart guy, Michael, you know how to push people's buttons and that's a very useful skill to have. The thing I see is that you prefer to somehow "guide" them slowly by pushing those buttons, so that they can see the light in the end, while I prefer a more blunt, crash-course approach, "take it like a man" discourse. I'll ponder about this, it might be worth to tackle a side approach sometimes if in the end the guy is going to learn more.