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Nimbrethil · 09-29-2008, 04:13 AM

Erin,

I read your entry on abortion only a few days ago, so I apologize for coming late to this thread, but I was extremely troubled by your blog entry and have to ask you some questions.

First, based on your comment that miscarriage is not abortion, I wonder, do you realize that the medical industry does indeed refer to miscarriage as "spontaneous abortion"? Also, are you aware of just how very common it is for women to miscarry without ever having even known they were pregnant? Sexually active women, especially those who are trying to become pregnant, miscarry rather often. Pregnancy is rare in this context, when you consider how often a fertilized egg gets aborted and flushed out of a woman's body because the pregnancy didn't quite "take."* Of course, this begs the question of exactly what you mean about when a pregnancy begins, because fertilization is NOT conception--conception doesn't occur until the fertilized egg attaches. Yet the disposal of a fertilized egg is indeed classified as a spontaneous abortion by the medical establishment. I have to question your assertion about contracts between souls and incarnated beings given just how often miscarriages occur.

Secondly, I am extremely appalled that you a) perpetuated the myth of the irresponsible hussy that freely engages in unprotected sex, having decided to "just" have an abortion if she becomes pregnant, and b) by omission have dismissed the fact most abortions are the result of women who WERE using protection, that failed. Yes, I acknowledge that you did say you couldn't possibly list all the reasons why a woman would choose to abort, but then you went on to list a few of the "more obvious" reasons--and left out THE most obvious one! How could you be that irresponsible??

Women don't just go around freely having sex without the use of any contraceptives because they can "just" have an abortion, and anyone who believes this has a very dim view of women indeed. And before anyone leaps to the keyboard to tell me how wrong I am, that they know such a woman personally, let me nip that objection in the bud before it begins: I am aware that on a planet of billions, obviously some women do this. But I challenge the notion that this happens in measureable numbers, because the research simply does not support it, and, more importantly, women who DO engage in sex without protection do so from a position of ignorance, not irresponsibility. These women are usually not women at all, but girls, and they are ALWAYS uninformed--or worse yet, misinformed. Women who engage in sex without protection generally aren't thinking about pregnancy at all, much less abortion.

Finally, on this note, I am utterly appalled that you are perpetuating the myth that any woman regards the decision to abort with the same concern she would give to making an appointment at the salon. NO woman chooses abortion over contraceptives unless she has a good reason for doing so. Honestly, Erin, would YOU choose to have an abortion in lieu of using condoms or anything else? Then why on earth do you think any other woman would?

That out of the way, I come to the real purpose of my post here. Your statements strike me as so contradictory and laden with your own biases that I strongly suspect that most of this comes not from your guides but from your own preconceived notions.

First, I want to point out that I, like another poster here, was confused about your claim of serious consequences, because you do rather make it sound ominiously like damnation. Then you mention that it seems to only be that the person responsible for breaching the contract must make amends by "fixing" somehow all the things left undone by that soul's not being permitted to incarnate. You made the consequences sound so dire, yet that doesn't strike me as such. Since if two of us were led to that conclusion, you can be sure that other people were, too, even if they didn't feel compelled to comment here. I would ask that you elaborate on this to clear up the confusion, if you don't actually mean a woman who aborts is going to suffer any sort of soul damnation.

The other thing that troubles me is your talk about contracts.

Your discussion about contracts led me to conclude that you are saying that this is absolute: every single time an egg is fertilized, that is a signal that there WAS a contract made, between the soul waiting to incarnate, and the mother and father. Do I understand that correctly? That this is the only way eggs become fertilized, is through the result of a contract between baby-to-be, mother, and father?

If that's true, then how on earth can you say what you do about rape victims? If an egg is fertilized as the result of this contract, then you are saying that the rape victim contracted to become pregnant by her rapist. And, um, if it is a contract, how is breaching it, by the woman getting an abortion, acceptable? I don't think you've actually thought that one through, Erin, because logically it just...it ISN'T logical, not at all. If there is a contract, then you are saying that a woman asked to be raped, because how else can you possibly argue that the woman entered into a contract? This line of thought, taken to its ONLY logical conclusion, suggests that rape cannot exist. Because, well, the woman agreed to this sex, as is shown by the fact she became pregnant.

In the same vein, if a pregnancy is a signal that a contract was made between three people, how can you sit back and claim that abortion is okay in ANY circumstance? I think it is horrendous for you to suggest that pregnancy resulting from rape is the result of a contract made between the disincarnate soul, a rapist and his victim. But if that's not what you're saying, then you have contradicted yourself utterly.

Are there situations in which a resulting pregnancy was NOT the result of a contract made between three entities? If not, then again, I have to ask, if pregnancy is always the result of a contract, how can there possibly be reasons in which breaching the contract is okay? Your line of reasoning just doesn't make sense.

I also must challenge your notion about using abortion as birth control. Abortion is birth control by its very definition. It's impossible NOT to use it as such. But this just brings me to another point. I would argue that a woman who is actively using contraceptives, and gets pregnant anyway, most certainly was not contracting to become pregnant. Use of contraceptives throws that possibility out the window. (And here I will preemptively reject the argument that "having sex is itself a contract to become pregnant"). If a woman is using birth control and adamantly does not intend to become pregnant--and actively plans to abort if her contraceptives fail--then the argument goes that any soul looking to this woman to incarnate is actively seeking to suppress this woman's free will, and it would be utterly stupid of a soul to incarnate in a woman who is taking measures to avoid pregnancy and who also has a back-up plan to negate any pregnancy that occurs despite her efforts.

But mostly I am just horrified that you are claiming that pregnancy is the result of a contract, because that argument really doesn't make sense in lieu of rape victims, unless, again, you are also claiming that a rape victim somehow contracted to become pregnant by her rapist, which, also again, seems to fly in the face of it being permissible for said rape victim to abort, since she, well, agreed to that pregnancy in the first place.

I have thoroughly enjoyed most of your articles, but this one left a bitter taste in my mouth, to see you propagating hateful, misogynist stereotypes against women. Between that and your claims here about what your spirit guides have supposedly told you, I am left believing that these actually are YOUR own biased and hugely uninformed ideas, not those of any spirits, and I question what value you actually do have to offer people who seek spiritual guidance when your contradictory words defy not only logic, but also compassion.

*For those who may question the statement that women miscarry very often, usually before ever knowing they were pregnant, here:
From Penn Pregnancy Health Center: Early Miscarriage
"Early miscarriage is very common. As many as 30% of women will experience one, usually before they even miss a period, or realize they are pregnant. Most early miscarriages are a result of a developing fetus that is unhealthy and has no chance of surviving to the end of pregnancy."

Understanding miscarriage
"Perhaps as many as three-quarters of all fertilised eggs are lost in the very earliest stages of pregnancy."

09-29-2008, 04:13 AM	#90 (permalink)
Nimbrethil Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 10	Re: Erin's original blog post Erin, I read your entry on abortion only a few days ago, so I apologize for coming late to this thread, but I was extremely troubled by your blog entry and have to ask you some questions. First, based on your comment that miscarriage is not abortion, I wonder, do you realize that the medical industry does indeed refer to miscarriage as "spontaneous abortion"? Also, are you aware of just how very common it is for women to miscarry without ever having even known they were pregnant? Sexually active women, especially those who are trying to become pregnant, miscarry rather often. Pregnancy is rare in this context, when you consider how often a fertilized egg gets aborted and flushed out of a woman's body because the pregnancy didn't quite "take."* Of course, this begs the question of exactly what you mean about when a pregnancy begins, because fertilization is NOT conception--conception doesn't occur until the fertilized egg attaches. Yet the disposal of a fertilized egg is indeed classified as a spontaneous abortion by the medical establishment. I have to question your assertion about contracts between souls and incarnated beings given just how often miscarriages occur. Secondly, I am extremely appalled that you a) perpetuated the myth of the irresponsible hussy that freely engages in unprotected sex, having decided to "just" have an abortion if she becomes pregnant, and b) by omission have dismissed the fact most abortions are the result of women who WERE using protection, that failed. Yes, I acknowledge that you did say you couldn't possibly list all the reasons why a woman would choose to abort, but then you went on to list a few of the "more obvious" reasons--and left out THE most obvious one! How could you be that irresponsible?? Women don't just go around freely having sex without the use of any contraceptives because they can "just" have an abortion, and anyone who believes this has a very dim view of women indeed. And before anyone leaps to the keyboard to tell me how wrong I am, that they know such a woman personally, let me nip that objection in the bud before it begins: I am aware that on a planet of billions, obviously some women do this. But I challenge the notion that this happens in measureable numbers, because the research simply does not support it, and, more importantly, women who DO engage in sex without protection do so from a position of ignorance, not irresponsibility. These women are usually not women at all, but girls, and they are ALWAYS uninformed--or worse yet, misinformed. Women who engage in sex without protection generally aren't thinking about pregnancy at all, much less abortion. Finally, on this note, I am utterly appalled that you are perpetuating the myth that any woman regards the decision to abort with the same concern she would give to making an appointment at the salon. NO woman chooses abortion over contraceptives unless she has a good reason for doing so. Honestly, Erin, would YOU choose to have an abortion in lieu of using condoms or anything else? Then why on earth do you think any other woman would? That out of the way, I come to the real purpose of my post here. Your statements strike me as so contradictory and laden with your own biases that I strongly suspect that most of this comes not from your guides but from your own preconceived notions. First, I want to point out that I, like another poster here, was confused about your claim of serious consequences, because you do rather make it sound ominiously like damnation. Then you mention that it seems to only be that the person responsible for breaching the contract must make amends by "fixing" somehow all the things left undone by that soul's not being permitted to incarnate. You made the consequences sound so dire, yet that doesn't strike me as such. Since if two of us were led to that conclusion, you can be sure that other people were, too, even if they didn't feel compelled to comment here. I would ask that you elaborate on this to clear up the confusion, if you don't actually mean a woman who aborts is going to suffer any sort of soul damnation. The other thing that troubles me is your talk about contracts. Your discussion about contracts led me to conclude that you are saying that this is absolute: every single time an egg is fertilized, that is a signal that there WAS a contract made, between the soul waiting to incarnate, and the mother and father. Do I understand that correctly? That this is the only way eggs become fertilized, is through the result of a contract between baby-to-be, mother, and father? If that's true, then how on earth can you say what you do about rape victims? If an egg is fertilized as the result of this contract, then you are saying that the rape victim contracted to become pregnant by her rapist. And, um, if it is a contract, how is breaching it, by the woman getting an abortion, acceptable? I don't think you've actually thought that one through, Erin, because logically it just...it ISN'T logical, not at all. If there is a contract, then you are saying that a woman asked to be raped, because how else can you possibly argue that the woman entered into a contract? This line of thought, taken to its ONLY logical conclusion, suggests that rape cannot exist. Because, well, the woman agreed to this sex, as is shown by the fact she became pregnant. In the same vein, if a pregnancy is a signal that a contract was made between three people, how can you sit back and claim that abortion is okay in ANY circumstance? I think it is horrendous for you to suggest that pregnancy resulting from rape is the result of a contract made between the disincarnate soul, a rapist and his victim. But if that's not what you're saying, then you have contradicted yourself utterly. Are there situations in which a resulting pregnancy was NOT the result of a contract made between three entities? If not, then again, I have to ask, if pregnancy is always the result of a contract, how can there possibly be reasons in which breaching the contract is okay? Your line of reasoning just doesn't make sense. I also must challenge your notion about using abortion as birth control. Abortion is birth control by its very definition. It's impossible NOT to use it as such. But this just brings me to another point. I would argue that a woman who is actively using contraceptives, and gets pregnant anyway, most certainly was not contracting to become pregnant. Use of contraceptives throws that possibility out the window. (And here I will preemptively reject the argument that "having sex is itself a contract to become pregnant"). If a woman is using birth control and adamantly does not intend to become pregnant--and actively plans to abort if her contraceptives fail--then the argument goes that any soul looking to this woman to incarnate is actively seeking to suppress this woman's free will, and it would be utterly stupid of a soul to incarnate in a woman who is taking measures to avoid pregnancy and who also has a back-up plan to negate any pregnancy that occurs despite her efforts. But mostly I am just horrified that you are claiming that pregnancy is the result of a contract, because that argument really doesn't make sense in lieu of rape victims, unless, again, you are also claiming that a rape victim somehow contracted to become pregnant by her rapist, which, also again, seems to fly in the face of it being permissible for said rape victim to abort, since she, well, agreed to that pregnancy in the first place. I have thoroughly enjoyed most of your articles, but this one left a bitter taste in my mouth, to see you propagating hateful, misogynist stereotypes against women. Between that and your claims here about what your spirit guides have supposedly told you, I am left believing that these actually are YOUR own biased and hugely uninformed ideas, not those of any spirits, and I question what value you actually do have to offer people who seek spiritual guidance when your contradictory words defy not only logic, but also compassion. For those who may question the statement that women miscarry very often, usually before ever knowing they were pregnant, here: From Penn Pregnancy Health Center: Early Miscarriage "Early miscarriage is very common. As many as 30% of women will experience one, usually before they even miss a period, or realize they are pregnant. Most early miscarriages are a result of a developing fetus that is unhealthy and has no chance of surviving to the end of pregnancy." Understanding miscarriage "Perhaps as many as three-quarters of all fertilised eggs are lost in the very earliest stages of pregnancy."* Last edited by Nimbrethil; 09-29-2008 at 04:37 AM.