Personal Development for Smart People Forums - View Single Post

taylor · 12-19-2006, 11:29 AM

Also, I wouldn't throw out Steve's ideas just yet. Here's how I can come to a similar view of the oneness of existence, and therefore Love. Sorry if it is a bit unfocused, I'm sleep deprived.

How do we determine that something exists? We can only know that something truly exists by our experience of it. If we determine that something exists because we read about it, then it is our experience of the words, and the thoughts, that makes us believe it exists.

The objective mind thinks that the world is out there and that it is real. If we stop perceiving it, it keeps right on going without us, and it is therefore separate from us. This brings up the fear of death and separation from reality.

But before the objective mind could think, there was an experience of the world. Nothing can possibly take place outside of the experience, otherwise how could it be said to exist? To truly be honest, ruthlessly honest, one must take into account the absolute reliance on subjectivity as the basis for all possible 'rational' conclusions or objective measurables. I don't see how you can say that adopting Steve's worldview is lying to oneself. If we truly want to understand the core of reality, we must look to our own subjectivity as the blank slate upon which all of existence is painted.

We can also see the limitation of the intellect in understanding reality. The intellect can only survive on a diet of dualities. You only understand something intellectually by reducing parts, or by splitting into categories. If you ever want to see the whole picture, the entire unity of existence, the intellect simply can not do the job. It can only think about it dualistically. Existence is a this, separate from a that. It is a concept, and therefore not the real thing. All thought is not reality, but only definitions about it. To truly see reality, we must go deeper, to subjectivity and consciousness. This is why the mystics who say they understand, repeat that they had to go beyond the mind.

I think there is a strong enough rational case for Steve's worldview. Even the most dogmatic materialist, if he is honest, must acknowledge the possibility that Steve could be right. Then there's nothing left to do but dive in experientially and see which worldview you like better.

12-19-2006, 11:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
taylor Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 50	Also, I wouldn't throw out Steve's ideas just yet. Here's how I can come to a similar view of the oneness of existence, and therefore Love. Sorry if it is a bit unfocused, I'm sleep deprived. How do we determine that something exists? We can only know that something truly exists by our experience of it. If we determine that something exists because we read about it, then it is our experience of the words, and the thoughts, that makes us believe it exists. The objective mind thinks that the world is out there and that it is real. If we stop perceiving it, it keeps right on going without us, and it is therefore separate from us. This brings up the fear of death and separation from reality. But before the objective mind could think, there was an experience of the world. Nothing can possibly take place outside of the experience, otherwise how could it be said to exist? To truly be honest, ruthlessly honest, one must take into account the absolute reliance on subjectivity as the basis for all possible 'rational' conclusions or objective measurables. I don't see how you can say that adopting Steve's worldview is lying to oneself. If we truly want to understand the core of reality, we must look to our own subjectivity as the blank slate upon which all of existence is painted. We can also see the limitation of the intellect in understanding reality. The intellect can only survive on a diet of dualities. You only understand something intellectually by reducing parts, or by splitting into categories. If you ever want to see the whole picture, the entire unity of existence, the intellect simply can not do the job. It can only think about it dualistically. Existence is a this, separate from a that. It is a concept, and therefore not the real thing. All thought is not reality, but only definitions about it. To truly see reality, we must go deeper, to subjectivity and consciousness. This is why the mystics who say they understand, repeat that they had to go beyond the mind. I think there is a strong enough rational case for Steve's worldview. Even the most dogmatic materialist, if he is honest, must acknowledge the possibility that Steve could be right. Then there's nothing left to do but dive in experientially and see which worldview you like better.