Quote:
Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot  In this discussion, I am highlighting the ability of an individual to choose his own thoughts. Naturally some individuals have this ability to a greater extent; some to a lesser extent; some may be more able to choose their their thoughts in particular areas of their lives or in particular kinds of situations.
So I am telling everyone now - this is a useful ability. It is something you should seek to develop and cultivate. |
Fair enough. I don't dispute that it's useful, or that cultivating it is a Good Thing. I doubt anyone here advocates that. Most here, myself included,
are cultivating it.
But we are exploring the practical boundaries of its usefulness.
I assert that choosing to think I'm Ghengis Kahn won't make me him.
I assert that the belief that you can choose all your thoughts is not an excuse to invalidate what people feel if it's negative or unpleasant, and tell them that they are lazy or wallowing in self pity or dumb worms.
That is all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot The alternative is that you are simply, as J Krishnamurti would put it, unconscious. You're sleeping. You're just a more complex species of earthworm. You react to a wider range of stimuli than an earthworm, but your reaction is still automatic and a pure result of your past conditioning. |
I don't see it as a zero-sum game. I am more conscious than I once was (practically speaking, a mixed blessing in my view, BTW) and less conscious than I likely will be in the future. It is not a binary choice.
You are a banker. I'm a software developer. The Dali Lama is a spiritual leader. All of us are the products of our past conditioning. Some of it doesn't need to be transcended. I don't see a need for you to transcend banking. I don't expect His Holiness to pass a software development certification before I'll listen to him. He does not sell his books strictly to his fellow monks. Not all past conditioning is troublesome.
And not all troubling past conditioning needs eradicating either. If the universe or god or whatever you choose to call it exists and has a will, unpleasant memories may have been purposely installed for a reason (or no reason). All I know is that resisting sometimes is more of a problem than what you are resisting. There are some things that will not change no matter what you think or do about them. I don't know why. I wish I did. But I know it to be true.
And not all things are caused by thoughts. Or at least, not all things in my experience are caused by my personal thoughts. I know this by the simple expedient that unexpected, unthought of things that are totally new to my experience regularly happen to me.
Suicide Guy might have had a different end to his story if he had been given (and received) encouragement to think differently. Sure. But how do we know he wasn't the most enlightened person there? What the heck, he may have had such refined sensibilities that he couldn't stand the unconsciousness around him!
--Bob