[pianoperformer]

NightSpirit: That was an amazing post.

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

ALG does have a point and I will tell you why I think so. I believe the theory LOA is based on is a spiritual law that God created and is in the Bible, that what we hear and believe in our hearts, will happen if it exists, which is another way of saying "if it’s the truth." ‘Whoever shall say unto this mountain, be removed and be cast into the sea and shall not doubt in his heart that what he says shall come to pass, shall receive whatsoever he says’ is a pretty bold statement Jesus made. I don‘t think we have fully taken advantage of all that He gives us or maybe our opposing doubts are standing in the way.

I believe, as some have said here, that all of God's creation and his laws, physical or spiritual, apply to us whether or not we are seeking Him and want to know Him. The Bible says, ‘that God causes the sun to shine on the evil and the good and that the rain falls on the just and the unjust.’ When they say LOA is working whether you believe it or not, as a spiritual principle, it is. ‘Ask and receive, seek and you shall find’ is followed by Jesus saying ‘for everyone that asks, receives’ not just Christians.

So what's the difference between just asking, and asking in His name? Obviously non-Christians are not going to ask in His name.

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

We can just plain ask things and get them or, as He said, we can ask anything in His name and He will give it to us. I think if we ask and don’t receive, it may be because we have asked for two things that are in conflict. Or it could be that He is answering a higher request, say, ‘to know the truth’ over the request we just made. Asking but not believing, the doubt Jesus spoke of, is called resistance in LOA.

I don't know. It seems there are people who do sincerely ask things, and not receive them. My theory is perhaps that each of us has some purpose here, and we won't receive something that conflicts with that purpose. For instance, I'm blind, and probably will be so no matter how sincerely I ask otherwise. I am not bitter about that, but assume it is something I just have to go through for whatever reason, and I don't question that.

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

If we ask out of our own understanding and get it, sometimes we get what we didn't want from asking from an incomplete knowledge. If we ask under the umbrella of the will of God, which seems scary or limiting to some, then Christians believe He will do what is best for us and all others. In LOA, it’s ‘this or something better‘ and the synchronicity of the universe and to a Christian it’s miracles or answers to prayer from God because that's who we were asking.

I do feel wrong though asking for "worldly" things. For instance, to do well in school. There are the obviously important things such as finding truth, having a closer relationship with God, etc, and then there are the things you just feel silly for bothering God about, if you know what I mean.

That was the debate I had with myself when i've studied Christianity in the past. Do you just ask for God's will to be done, or can you ask for specific things that you might desire? If the former, then one could say His will is going to be done, anyway, whether you ask for it or not.

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

We are not required to have the correct theology or know the creator to benefit and make use of gravity. And we don't have to know all there is about God or to love him to make use of His spiritual laws of faith. Jesus said the devil and even those who are working against God can do signs and wonders, that you can gain the whole world and lose your own soul. And there are numerous examples in the Bible of people speaking evil things, of cursing their own selves or family with their words because of this law of 'Ask and receive.'

Very good point.

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

If we take these principles and use them to have our own power outside of God then LOA can become our religion of self. Asking and receiving, seeking and finding, can draw us toward God or away from God depending on what we are seeking. The Bible call it 'worshiping the creature' and not the creator, to seek fulfillment and be thankful for the pleasure in something of His creation and not to God, like reaping the benefits of the system of LOA but not humbling to the God that created it.

So isn't that a little of a fine line? Could you clarify a bit? I do see what you mean about humbling yourself before God, but how do you know when you're perhaps asking the wrong things or for the wrong reason?

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

Calling God the power of universe, source, etc may seem to be more enlightened as a generic term but what if it is less enlightened, like calling ALG 'man' which he fully is but that doesn't describe him completely. What if those terms in LOA are just parts of who He is…that whole pantheism thing where He is one but also many at the same time? ALG was kind and didn't point out the mystery of the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, One God in three manifestations but still one.

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

It's just that some think God can't be the God of the Bible because that is one name but there are many names of God in there. God says in the Bible, when asked, that His name is "I am that I am" a term which I think carries tremendous implications, that He just IS and anything we could thing of He IS. Or that He is Now and that is His power and what makes Him eternal.

Also a very good point.

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

The entire Bible, OT and NT is about Jesus and it's the same God in both. Jesus is described as the fulfillment of all creation and that the fullness of God dwells in Him. It is possible for Jesus to be revealing aspects of Himself to people in other religions and still be the only way to God at the same time.

I don't understand that, either. If Jesus quite obviously said you must believe in him and what he's done, then how can there be a way around that?

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

ALG, do you believe that these events really happened or do you see them as just symbolic stories to teach us principles? I seem them as both, things that Jesus really did that also had symbolic meaning behind them when examined. It seems illogical to me when someone points to verses in the Bible in support of some truth like LOA that others may not see but then implies that the rest of the Bible is not true or a conspiracy of men to control us, like some from Steve on down do here. Surely the Apostles and the Catholic Church weren't conspiring to teach us the LOA principles that are in there, were they?

Agreed.