[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Um, atoms. Atoms are made of particles that only have a probablistic chance of being in a given location. That's about as far as those implications go, though.

Right. There constantly in motion. How do they move? What is the cause of the motion?

Hmm, a bit over-defensive just because I'm pointing it's not as abstract and new-agey as one might like? Your idea of energy is different from the scientific idea of energy. Which is fine, but it means that the scientific idea doesn't support your philosophical idea.

I'm defensive for reasons far beyond this thread. It's apparently that time of the month for me, so please let it slide.

You don't 'know' me. Your assumption that I'm am being 'new agey' is a bias in your thinking which is no more rational than any bias that I hold.

Science sees energy as something affecting matter. On closer inspection, the matter that is being affected is energy itself.

I don't see how I did anything different. Simply trying to say that the scientific perspective was misstated. You're free to hold any philosophical perspective you like, but currently science doesn't support it.

Here is my basis. Please, tell me where I have gone wrong. The universe begins as a large mass of energy. The big bang happens. Now that ball of energy is spread out among the cosmos as galaxies, stars, etc. Those stars have various particles of dust which form planets. On this particular planet, they formed us along with everything else in nature. So, everything in the universe that is matter is energy.

*looks around* Where's the circular logic?

Just trying to bring it back to earth.

As I said, it's that time of the month.

The circular logic I am referring to is that no one really knows how the universe began. No one knows whether there is a creator behind it all. No one knows what happens when we die. Yet when someone presents an idea of an answer, people tear it apart with logic and presume themselves better than the person that presented the idea. I find it irritating. As if you and others on this forum do not have your own beliefs and ideas. It's the sense of superiority. It is circular in the sense that we still are no closer to an answer through reason... yet, we'll spend another 17 pages of Steve's website discussing it.