[schola]

Originally Posted by jaamkie

no no no!!!! You miss the point of loans- as do seemingly most Americans- the source of a lot of current economic pain and past market bubbles... In one sense I totally agree- borrowing/loans to fund consumption is nonsensical- credit card debts without a particular plan are absolutely awful (short-term, credit cards also serve a useful purpose as more secure cash-substitute if you pay them off each month so don't mean to totally disparage...).

This is subject is bigger and broader than the United States. Usury has been around for thousands of years and was banned by countless societies throughout the ages.

It comes down to understanding the true nature of "money."

If you "borrow" apples to just eat them and sit on your ass some more, I agree the whole thing might as well be called a gift or theft depending on circumstances.

That's what money is. Food. Fuel. It is the fuel of the economy.

You have to burn the fuel to get any use out of it. How can you rent fuel? You can't.

Money is the same except that no one realizes it. So the bankers are allowed to perpetuate their fraud.

The point is if you use money to make more money- if you borrowed a cow to breed it and sell the milk (rather than "borrowing" to slaughter and eat it) a farmer would be perfectly justified in expecting a cow plus a calf in return for the loan of a cow for a year

The cow produces milk and offspring (provided you have a bull too) without you having to put any sweat equity into it. It produces value on its own. That's the difference.

Money doesn't do this. Money is only a medium of exchange. It doesn't create more value just sitting in your house like the cow in your field does.

Money doesn't create value. Any value created while using the money comes from your time and effort.

But this is also the point of money- to be able to split ownership and share profits without requiring direct barter- the farmer might prefer a cash interest payment rather than a percentage ownership of a calf... universally accepted cash vastly simplifies trade scenarios- we have a hard time even imagining them requiring everything settled up in real useful property instead of cash.

You're talking about renting a cow. I have no problem with renting cows. I have a problem with renting money.

I'm not condemning money. Only clarifying what it really is.