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Originally Posted by mercuryrising  Well, if there is no subject to define the object "cup" in the event of falling and breaking, then it is irrelevant to reality as you or I know it. Without the perceiver involved, the cup could have not fallen and broken or there was never a cup in the first place or there is and is not a cup falling simultaneously. We don't know. |
This and the following is just a distraction. You come with some grandiose words about philosophy, but you fail to address my central issue: A couple of observers see a cup falling down and breaking.
You have claimed before there won't be events on which all observer would agree, i.e., no objective reality. I give you an example of what would is objective reality, at least for me.
If the event of the cup falling and breaking is not "objective", some observers would agree that it happened, others would not.
In my perception of the world, there won't be some observers that could continue to use the cup and some observers that could not do so. If it broke, neither could continue to use the cup.
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Originally Posted by mercuryrising My point is that a cup only exists in a subjective universe. From a purely objective universe, you would have a bunch of atoms flying around running into each other. The universe only has some sort of meaning relative to a limited perception by a conscious being. |
If all conscious beings - who in this case would also need to have senses and the means to communicate with others - agree on the outcome of the event, it is objective.
Whether or not there are beings who don't have senses and/or cannot communicate their findings is irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by mercuryrising They have to because you say so? You can't interact with people who perceive the world differently than you? How are we having this conversation then? |
I said I cannot interact with people who could at the same time have the cup broken and not broken. Maybe you can. In which case my view of the world would be wrong. But I would need a little more evidence before I consider such a drastic step.
As it happened, I did break a cup some time ago ... it was my favorite one. And I threw it away. If you could convince me that it didn't break and that I still have it, I might reconsider.
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Originally Posted by mercuryrising To my 6 year old daughter, this forum is meaningless. It doesn't enter her subjective reality. It isn't real to her. The Webkinz website, however, is quite real to her. |
Just because she doesn't know about this forum (and probably wouldn't care if she did) doesn't mean it isn't here. She may learn about it in some years. That doesn't mean it didn't exist before or that she wouldn't have been able to google it if she tried.
There are probably also web forums about knitting and other stuff that neither of us knows about. That doesn't mean they don't exist and are created just at the time when we google them. That just means that we don't read them (at the moment).