[fwellers]

Originally Posted by Independent Christian

In the end, again though--regardless of what separation from God entirely entails (as we'll never know while here on earth, and hopefully won't find out either)--the crucial question for me is "how do I/we make it to the "good" place?"

Hey IC,
I assume from that, that you think that when we die here, we go to some place to spend forever and ever ?
I think that's not quite right. We are in eternity now, and when we die, we are still in eternity, but a new set of circumstances. At any time during our life in eternity, we can become more and more conscious, ie.. grow.

The traditional bible understandings are that we are here in time now, and that when we die, we have no more "chances", and our final destination is set in stone, and lasts forever and ever and ever.
I categorically reject that as pure hogwash.

I do believe we're separated from God in a real sense and need some kind of way to reconciliation. Just as when we fight with a friend or loved one, there's some kind of need for such. But in the case with God, he hasn't done the wrong--we've separated ourselves from his holiness. And I don't believe mere good works can repair that great difference.

Yea, as long as we totally identify with our little selves ( our egoic identity ), then we are separated from God, or in other words, separated from our true selves. That's what Jesus was saying. He and God are one, just as we and God are one.
I am coming more and more to actually realize that the whole sin notion is wrong too. We haven't done some evil deed in the face of a holy God that needs reconciling because He is so just, blah blah blah. We just have "missed the mark" because we identify with our egos, and therefore are cut off from knowing and realizing the truth.

If you think about it, assuming we even do just one thing in a day that is opposite his nature, that adds up to a lot of misdeeds! If you live just 30 years, that's now over 10,000 offenses of some kind. Dare I say most of us, at least, commit a lot more than that, especially when you add in the darker thoughts we allow to dwell on (not merely pass thru for a split moment), the envies, hatreds, excessive angers toward others.

Whose keeping score ? Yea maybe there is cause and effect involved ( karma ), but the notion of us doing misdeeds against a personality ( God ), who needs justice, is the wrong way of looking at it IMO. We make mistakes and we learn from them. Eventually, we will all realize the truth, and what our true identity is, and be one with God.


About the link you provided. I have no issues with believing that Jesus was raised from the dead. Stranger things have probably happened. I believe anything can ( and probably does ) happen. It still doesn't mean that there is no way to avoid some eternal separation or hell, without worshipping him. It doesn't follow.