Quote:
Originally Posted by Independent Christian  Hi, Floyd;
I don't know what "reasonable proof" of the existence of hell you're looking for, since--assuming it's a valid place--anyone who enters there doesn't have the option of coming back to warn everyone. And if someone did have that option, everyone would assume he was hallucinating as part of some NDE (Near Death Experience). |
Hey IC,
I'm not actually looking for proof of hell. It is not part of my beliefs, and there is no proof of it, so why bother ? Why would I assume it's a valid place ? There is not even enough potential evidence to make that assumption. There's nothing except one mis-translated book.
Quote:
|
I don't know that I consider the Bible to be infallible, so I can't argue on those grounds with absolute certainty. If that's what you're looking for before reconsidering the viewpoints you espouse, then I won't be able to make you think any further.
|
Well the bible certainly isn't infallible. And my viewpoints have a lot of "thought" involved, which is why I don't believe what the bible says about it.
Quote:
|
However, I do believe the Bible has an inherently correct spiritual message (as you seem to as well, at least pertaining to doing good deeds and such). I also have--thru fairly extensive research--determined it to be a book possessing considerable historical backing as well. Perfect? Again, no. But if that's the standard, I'm afraid many, many books--including those written much more recently than the Bible--are going to fall short of such a stringent standard.
|
Some of the very best lies are those mixed with truth. But a thinking man would not be able to reconcile the God of Love with the god of hell. To reconcile those two beings demands one to suspend reason. Why would I ever want to do that ? Why would I ever want to believe a book that asks me to worship such a vengeful hateful god ?
Quote:
|
Having said that, my argument wasn't "for hell," but rather "For Jesus" as who the Bible declares him to be, which is the Son of God.
|
Fair enough. We are all the sons of God. Jesus was an enlightened being, who was able to fully incarnate "God", just as Buddha, and Krishna were.
Quote:
|
He also said "no one can come to the Father but thru me." There were other similar verses I don't recall the exact verbiage on. Basically, he says you can try and get there thru your own efforts (as you posted recently above, I noticed) or rely on him to have done the work for you.
|
That is not to be take literally as christianity has taken it. If that were the case, all the people who never even heard of Jesus could never get to God. Jesus was just pointing out that the way to experience eternity is to deny "self". It's the same most religions teach, with a slightly different flavor.
Quote:
|
What about those who never really had a legit chance to listen to and accept the message of salvation thru Christ's death and resurrection? I am not certain, but based on the love I believe God exhibits thru the death of Jesus and other scriptures, I believe his grace reigns in those situations. I just know I am responsible for making my decision to accept or reject his gift of salvation.
|
Good for you. You allow more than most christians that I have met. Yet you still believe this god maintains an eternal place of torture and keeps people in it for eternity ?
As for your decision to accept or reject his gift, what do you think it is about you that causes you to accept the gift unto eternal salvation, while the next guy rejects it unto eternal torture ? Is it that the next guy is pure evil ? Really think about this one for a minute.