[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by John Freestone

It is true, to some extent, that new science sounds like ancient mysticism, but if "rational judgement is part of the equation" then we must be careful about what we conclude. Firstly, there are many scientific theories that are pure speculation - indeed that is what all theories start as. Most of the weird science you're talking about has in no way been proven, though some of it does have some evidence. Secondly, it almost always applies to unbelievably small dimensions of matter. Particles have been deduced as existing in two places at once (it is even too much to say "observed") under strict scientific conditions - but gurus only under hearsay conditions.

What you are missing is why they have to come up with these theories in the first place, which is that the Newtonian model doesn't work on a very large or very small scale. Why do the rules change when we are not directly perceiving the event?

Rational judgement would also speculate how much the scientists of today have been influenced by humanity's deep and ubiquitous spiritual philosophies through time - are they unfairly biasing their theories towards ones that involve magical ideas - especially when you understand how new theories grow on top of older ones. Many scientists are actually of a mystical or religious bent themselves, although many aren't. Einstein and Newton come to mind immediately.

Kind of sounds like all people are going off their subjective experience of reality.

Mostly, however, we find that those who have a good understanding of particle physics do not extrapolate their findings to encompass all being. They also believe in evolution. They also believe in the force of gravity that holds their desk in place. They don't imagine that they can reinvent the whole of engineering to reflect the fact that particles can appear and disappear. They don't spend their time trying to build matter-transporters. Some of them promise "replicators" in the home quite soon ("Earl Grey, hot"), but none of the technology suspends any rational law of science: it's just nanotechnology, assuming they get there.

Science assumes that the subject/object matrix is real. If they didn't, it would be impossible to induce causality (answer the question "how"). What we are really talking about is ontology. Because of the dualistic nature of language it is difficult to talk about the nature of being, which is why mystics use metaphor to communicate what they understand. Jesus used farming, fishing and wedding feasts. We use quantum mechanics, relativity and computer science.

The problem comes in when people take these metaphors literally, either to be absolute truth or as a replacement for science. When Jesus talks about the farmer throwing seeds on various types of ground, he is not giving a lesson in agriculture.

Time travel, it has been said, is perfectly possible in theory. The only problem is that the theory requires more energy than is supposed to exist in the universe, and the existence of a certain type of particle that has not yet been discovered. See how great the weird science is?

Where does this line of thinking take you? In other words, how does it serve you? If we were discussing this a hundred years ago and I described some of the technologies in existence today, you'd think I was nuts.

Well, it can be, but this is another of those whips the LoA illuminati like to hit us with: If you don't believe in your magical powers, you must be frightened. The common culture has got you under its spell of fear. However, if you started out hypnotised by the prevailing myths and then overcame that enslavement, you did it by thinking for yourself, doubting what you thought you knew and what other people told you.

I'm going to take a different route than wolfgang on this one. You should doubt everything. If you continuously doubt everything, you never land on a firm set of laws or principles that work absolutely. Most skeptics don't do this... they doubt what they never believed in the first place, but rarely look at what they do believe.

So, no, doubt isn't really fear. Fear keeps you believing what you believe as much as it stops you imagining different scenarios. If someone tells you to stop doubting and just believe, they could be hoping to raise your consciousness, but very often they're trying to stop you noticing something. Often, in this LoA game, it's done because it makes them feel better the more people agree with their theory...it increases their hit count and their income for instance. Doubt isn't a problem, but fear is. Those who use that whip are in fact trying to make you fear to doubt. They are trying to stop you considering alternatives to whatever it is they're proposing. All the religions do it. SR is a religion, in case you hadn't noticed.

Subjective reality points out that we are not perceiving the actual reality. What that actual reality is can only be speculated. So "SR" doesn't ask anyone to believe anything, rather to look at what they do believe and how that effects their life. It goes further than "positive thinking' or something to point out that how we perceive things actually changes the phenomena we perceive.

I feel there's a distinct message between the lines here (using my psychic powers ): I really really want to believe this stuff, and...ooooh look, here's some weird science...that just must support the theory.

Sorry, I just think there is a really important psychological state that is dreadfully undervalued. It's called not knowing. Suspension of belief. ALG pities me for it, but I'm in good company along with Socrates. It is difficult sometimes. It takes patience to get used to it. Everywhere we look we're being told what the facts are, and we're programmed to try to work it out, to know one way or the other.

"I know that I don't know," is a paradox which you might wish to contemplate further. Considering the Platonic theory of Ideas and the Cave metaphor, I would say you are not in the best company. I think Aristotle is more up your alley.

As I said before, this is about looking at beliefs, many of which we've been conditioned to accept, and choosing what we want to perceive in reality. It does not require the suspension of reason.