[Natsu]

Originally Posted by Angela

I would rather deal with death by being present to the reality of it, rather than believing someone's made-up story about a beautiful place in the sky where we go after we die (if we're lucky, and if we're good.)

That's very good when your grandmother dies at 81 surrounded of a loving family and having lived a good life. When someone dies at age 21, or 6, or 10, you may believe or not, but the pang of pain makes you certainly understand why other people believe.

However, I agree that believing what others told you to is not the best choice. Steve is saying you should find your own choices.

The reality of death is enough for me. I'm willing to be present to this big fat beautiful life, and I don't require an imaginary pal or the hope of an afterlife to be infinite joy and abundance now, while I'm alive.

Congrats to you. Not everybody is like you. I know someone who had an existential crisis and fainted because of it. After my father died, I was depressed for two months. My partners at the university told me my face was green. I overcame it... but I totally understand that I would have felt better had I believed in something else.

That's very funny to need religion in order to cope with death.

I didn't say religion. Religion was used in the past when there was nothing else. It's the belief that makes people feel better. And it may be funny for you, but for people who have faced the death of young relatives, it's NOT funny. What's your choice when the pain is unbearable? What makes you think you will endure it? You don't think we are talking only about your death here, right? There's also an inmense amount of pain when loved people die.

It's like putting an imaginary band-aid on an open, gaping chest wound.
well, okay, maybe that isn't the best analogy.

The wound isn't in your chest, it's in your mind (not brain, mind), and your mind works with imaginations. So an imaginary band-aid can heal the open, gaping mind wound. You find it funny? I don't want any close relative of yours to die young for you to learn how NOT funny it is. You'll have to take that on my word.

I don't understand why people can't see other's point of view on this subject. A friend of mine died last year in a car accident, just about to marry, 33 years old, one month before my wedding. My best friend is an atheist, and she was his ex-girlfriend. This girl-friend of mine has told me many times that sometimes she envies people who believe because of the comfort for the pain they have. In her own words, "I never had any problem with the prospect of dying myself, but it's horrible when other people die".

Again: the wound is in the mind. People have the power to heal their mind wounds with their mind assets. But if you give that power over your mind to an organized institution, you are mutilating yourself needlessly.

And, of course, that shouldn't stop us from seeing reality as atheists, valuing life more than anything and working hard to make things better. To make science and medicine and life standards better, so we can have better life quality. I like the point of view of the atheist, it gives you strength of mind and purpose. But I very much understand the point of view of the spiritual person. And what Steve is always saying is that you shouldn't limit yourself by using a label, such as "I'm this". You can love life as an atheist, and work every day as if you could die tomorrow. You can be curious about every experience as an agnostic, and you can have the spirituality of a religious person. And you don't need to label yourself or stick to any of those mindsets. You can switch mindsets and use the ones that suit you better.