WOW
I thought there should be something about Islam in this forum. But I never knew there will be a post like KevinGs one and other firends here
Well lets start by saying that I am a practicing Muslim myself (you probably figured out by my name
) Any ways Dear friends you raised many interesting points which I get asked about all the time as a practicing Muslim and everybody has the right to ask and discuss what ever they want. Excuse me for not answering all your points in one go but I will be posting different answers
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First of all let me just say that sadly sadly many people in different backgrounds read news, books or what ever about others and they start judging them. The Quran is a complex book and you really need to know the meaning and the history behind the verses before you start judging my good friend. I do understand your feeling towards such verses and actions of Muslims however the pure teachings of Islam ARE about peace and not about spreading pain and suffering. Certainly Muslims and non-muslims (press) making it look bad with their bad actions whether they do it with good intentions or not.
This is a huge discussion so I have to explain to you some basics. First of all the basics of Islam have differences with other beliefs. If you didn't know Islam is not just about spirituality, for a Muslims to be a good believer it isn't enough to go to the mosque and do spiritual activities. Islam also involves matters regarding the physical life. Social, economical and political. Am not sure what type of research you have done however we have 1000's of books in our traditions and all discuss those matters. Examples:
- Social, prophet Mohammed said: The best of people is the one who is most beneficial to people and the worst of them is the one who harms people the most.
- economical: The curse of Allah upon any person who oppresses his employees.
- political: when attacked one must defend his country, family and belongings with all he has. And who ever dies in the process is considered a martyr.
We have something besides the Quran called Sunna, the sayings of the prophet. The quran is directly form God but the sayings are of the prophet.
Now I don’t know if it is worth referencing the pages of the books that I have these sayings from because I don' t know if you got them in English but I will give you the titles of the books:
- saheeh muslim, saheeh bukhari, Al-kafi, Bihar al anwar.
I have these books right here with me and I read, study and hold seminars about those types of sayings. Now Why am I telling you this?? it is because I want to show you we believe that prayers are good but they are not enough to make you a good Muslim HENCE things like respecting fellow citizens and FIGHTING to defend your people are obligatory things and noble actions. Where am I going with this?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
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9:5: "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful
5:33 "The only reward for those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom..."
See Ibn Kathir's tafsir of 5:33 here: Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir.
Verse 48:29 - "Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."
Verse 66:9 - "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate."
Let's try verse 9:111 - "Allah has purchased from the faithful their lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for the cause of Allah, they will slay, and be slain."
Let's start with verse 4:74 - "Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter, fight for the cause of Allah; whoever fights for the cause of Allah, whether he dies or triumphs, on him We shall bestow a rich recompense.
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HMMMM ,, can you please tell me the situation of the revelation of those verses???? and WHEN they were revealed?? I mean you have done a good research and you should be certain of your your post so you must know the FULL idea behind those VIOLENT versus in quran, right?? You know when studying Islam you are suppose to analyze the verses of Quran and read the full story of their revelation.
Well if you didn't dig deep enough let me please share something with you that I have been taught in schools back home (Iraq) since I was 5.
When Mohammed started his message what did he do? Gathered a gang and started invading villages??? well I know many people have that idea INGRANED in their minds however it wasn’t like this. Do you know when those versus were revealed? And when did Mohammed started fighting? Mohammed didn’t start his message with fighting, he started by speaking to people in his home town Mecca and inviting them to his new message, did the tribal leaders at mecca like it? no they didn't so they started torturing the new Muslims (they couldn't touch Mohammed and some other Muslims as they belonged to high cast tribes as that’s how it went in the Arabian land those days, tribes in high and low cats and ranks). They released their anger on Mohammed by vandalizing, torturing and killing the Muslims with week positions. Those people who started the attacks the Quran labels them the non-believers and it WAS NOT referring to any non-believer at any time. That was the best description for them at that time in that culture as those haters came from different tribes and backgrounds.
Those verses which you showed came in a certain time in history during Mohammed’s life. I will tell you when in a moment. After the suffering Mohammed and his followers left Mecca and migrated to another City (Medina) where the majority of the people of Medina willingly accepted his message because they heard of it and they liked it.
Mohammed migrated and those non-believers at that time kept on abusing the people who wanted to follow Islam back in Mecca and actually wanted to Kill Mohammed.
So at this point what do you think a person like Mohammed should do???? He has a message that he wants to pass to people in peace but unfortunately life is aint that easy so his people got abused and he has to DEFEND himself and his people before those idiots run after him and jump them all again.. then versus like those were revealed : -----
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The only reward for those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom..."
See Ibn Kathir's tafsir of 5:33 here: Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir.
Verse 48:29 - "Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."
Verse 66:9 - "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate
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